talon
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Post by talon on Aug 4, 2017 4:29:52 GMT -5
Regarding Marc
I loved Marc. I saw Queen Extravaganza 4 times and he was amazing in each. In fact I probably dig the QE setlists better than QAL at times. lol...No they don't do It's Late, but they have shaken things up a bit more here and there...and I WISH QE brought their most recent tour over here where they did all of A Night At The Opera! THAT was awesome. I'd LOVE to see QAL get bold and try something like that....I had held out about a 1% hope they'd do that for NOTW. But I realized pretty quickly that they'd never veer too far from the GH...
But I'd never want to see Marc with Queen for a tour or even a full gig. That would be too eerie.
As for if B&R performed with Marc. B&R was in the last few minutes of AI with QE when they premiered doing Somebody To Love just before QE's first tour started. It was also the premiere of the upbeat faster ending that B&R ended up liking so much that they copied it and used it with Adam during their first go around.
The only other times they've performed together is Roger with Marc doing Under Pressure at a festival and Marc sat in with Roger at a Freddie Birthday Party. I don't believe Brian ever played with him besides the one AI time. QE was always Roger's baby and pure speculation - Brian was a bit unnerved performing with him with the voice being so similar.
I prefer AL over Marc when performing with Queen as a whole. I wouldn't mind seeing one gig just for shits and giggles if I'm honest because it'd be nice to kind of close my eyes and kind of imagine a bit...but for the long haul that would be too much.
As for Marc's comments. He has never had anything bad to say about Adam. In fact he has had a ton of praise for Adam from what I remember. There's no jealousy or whatever. Marc is one of the most down to earth guys I've ever seen in interviews, etc. Just a nice guy. And people in QE and associated have said the exact same thing. I've never heard anyone who knew him/worked with him/met him have a bad word to say about Marc.
I'm glad he got to see the show (and meet with his buddy Tyler again!)
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talon
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Post by talon on Aug 2, 2017 19:50:47 GMT -5
Talon, I am not going to quote you because it is too long but I will say one thing. Even though, I respect and appreciate your contributions to this forum and admire your love for Queen and Freddie, to call Adam and Paul merely a footnote in Queen's history, is frankly insulting. Without Paul, Queen's history would have ended in 1991. Without Adam, it would have ended in 2009. And they have both sang with the band for 5 years, not 5 days. First off thank you so much for discussing it rationally and attempting to bridge the gap of where we have our differences. That is greatly appreciated. You are one of the good guys I will say I'm sorry you feel that way but I still feel that in 50 years when the history of the band is brought forth in say a 30 chapter book, the Freddie years will be 28 of those chapters, Paul would get a chapter, and Adam would get a chapter. Queen + IS a footnote because the only thing they do is tour. Touring is great and makes people happy, etc. It's wonderful. But in Queen's accomplishments....the ones that will remembered is the 1973-1991 (well 1995 with MIH) era. Everything else after that is gravy. Look I'm not shortselling. I never got to see Queen. I ONLY got to see Queen through Paul and Freddie - but Paul's contribution to the legacy of the band is two world tours, and a studio album (and a few live releases). It's not even considered part of the Queen discography. Same with Adam. LOVE them live and it's awesome but as to how it affects a legacy is not so much. A few world tours at the end of their career. And Supersonic (if that's it) won't be part of the Queen discography either....they already aren't! Go to Queenonline and check the discography out and look at live albums. They aren't listed. Neither is the QPR studio album. It's not MEANT to be insulting or demeaning. It's simply how it is. Since 1995's Made In Heaven - in 22 years. The band has released 1 studio album, and 4 live albums that wasn't from Queen. QPR released one studio album and 3 live albums (along with a lot of downloads of individual live tracks. QAL has released one live album. Before 1995 they released 15 studio albums, 3 live albums and multiple compiliations. In that same era after 1995 the original band has released 4 full live album/packages as well as numerous compilations. See why I call it a footnote? It's a fun footnote and allows the music to reach people even today but it's not the same thing as Queen 1973-1995. OK. I see this quote a lot. But I feel there is a big disclaimer. Adam is the reason. Why? Because Adam is who Brian and Roger chose and enjoy touring with after 2009. But it's not a matter of they COULDN'T do it otherwise. They WOULDN'T do it which is different. If Brian fell in love with Ga Ga's voice and Ga Ga wanted to, I bet you QGAGA would sell out just as well as QAL. (even with a shitty abbreviation - AND what would be nowhere near as good a show) 100% accurate. Agreed! 100% accurate. But let's be honest...A MAJOR reason why is Brian and Roger pushing 70. If QAL had happened around 2005 or so, than when Adam went off and did his solo thing and didn't want to perform with Queen, things may have changed. See that I disagree with. Those who came in as Adam fans first absolutely...but for Queen fans. Even those who LOVED what Adam did - still think of Freddie as the frontman. They think Adam did a great job and the concert was fun..but that Freddie is still the "voice of Queen" when they think of the songs. I think Adam will be remembered fondly for the tours he did but not quite like you think. Spike Edney is considered family too and If Spike Edney,who toured with the band for 30 + years including 3 tours with Freddie and Queen is considered in whole in general as a footnote....I think the same will be considered of Adam...especially as it's Queen + Adam. It's not Adam joining Queen. See that's just it. It's the studio recordings that will be what lasts and is the true legacy of Queen. QAL have gotten great reviews but not anything like Queen at Live Aid for example considered perhaps the finest performance in rock history. Wembley Stadium, considered an iconic gig. QAL haven't really had that long lasting moment like that. Without anything like that and without any super successful studio album, Adam is a footnote. It's kind of like Van Halen When David Lee Roth left VH, Sammy joined up and they were in their prime still and they released a ton of hit albums. When Sammy left they were kind of no longer in vague and Gary Cherone came in...they released one album that tanked and toured the world (and it was a successful tour). Gary left. You can barely find anything about Van Halen with Gary now. Album isn't in the discography, etc. Another similar example. Adam will not bein the Rock Hall of Fame with Queen. When VH was inducted David and Sammy were inducted. Mike generously mentioned Gary's time in VH during the speech but he's not in there. It would be the same now. You won't see Adam put in the HoF with Queen now. I definitely see that. I don't disagree on some levels. I think Adam has a pretty thankless job at times...and he does a HELLUVA job with B&R. He should get some more recognition from some hardcore Queen fans absolutely...But the problem is he WILL forever be a stand in to most people. Because he's stepping into a slot that was already made - songs already written and successful a long time ago, a touring machine that is all set up to go. He does well in his role of lead vocalist...which is why it is Queen + Adam Lambert. If he wasn't a stand in - it'd be just Queen touring. Like Journey does now with the guy they found on YouTube. Like the Doors did with Ian Astbury of the Cult. Like so many groups do. But in this case it's Queen (B&R) + Adam Lambert singing. As far as reviewers...well yes but there's more to it than that. The press hated Queen because they got where they were going without their help. In those days reviewers and critics basically made or broke bands. Queen didn't need them. After that instead of being nice, Freddie was an asshole to a press that was jackasses to them. And even worse as time went on one of Freddie's personal assistants made things even worse literally sabotaging any access to Freddie with the press. So it was always kind of a Queen vs the Press for different reasons than their music. Adam is FAR suaver and smoother with the press than Freddie EVER was. lol... Again, I don't mean any of my views to be disrespectful...It's just how I see things. Sometimes things are said here which are over the top the other way so I almost feel the need to provide a different viewpoint. I honestly feel I'm more neutral though I know some here won't see it that way. But to a lot of Queen fans I'm telling them to give him a chance, and that he pulls off a great show...and that I had a great time, etc. etc. I posted the same reviews here that I did on QOL for example (Minus the long extended intro)...so I'm the same in both places...Here I'm considered overly negative by some I'm sure, whereas there I'm overly positive I can't win...but I can't change my mind either :D Respectively. Me.
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talon
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Post by talon on Aug 2, 2017 12:25:49 GMT -5
Thanks so much! This is so helpful. If John for some reason really said no to something down the road, I wonder how that would go over and if there would be a fight on their hands. Let's hope that never happens for the sake of the band's harmony in all forms. No problem I wouldn't worry too much about it. My speculation only, I know, but I think as time goes on, John cares less and less - especially about touring. I think he'd be more apt to veto a Queen product that has material on it that he was involved in. I think the only way John vetos anything QAL would be if they tried to do something ghastly like take and old Freddie demo or something and try to finish it with Adam. I think he MAY try to veto that but I don't think B&R would even try that. Members of QP that I've talked to is that they keep Queen VERY separate from Queen + products. That's why I don't think you'll see Adam anywhere near the Freddie bio. Again I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem likely to me. For the record - I think Adam probably is the best choice for frontman. There are others that would be fine as well. My first choice just being Brian and Roger touring themselves in smaller venues doing VH1 storytellers type gigs with just themselves on vocals. But I understand that's got a limited audience and thus not a likely scenario. Not going to meet their "million quarantee" either. Unless they charge ridiculous prices. Oh of course not...But then again I'd be talking about a TOTALLY different production. Something much lower key....not even Queen really. A more stark set, etc. More about the music than the show. Something done very low key that would work better in the UK. They almost did a show like this once. They were going to do a VH1 Storytellers gig in 2001ish with friends Dave Grohl and Taylor Hawkins from Foo Fighters offering support but then Taylor overdosed and then 9/11 happened and plans never reformed after that. It would have been cool and VERY different. It is amazing how this argument comes up every single time there is a show and fans are loving Adam. The envy is inevitable. Adam is not standing in for Freddie cause Freddie is not coming back. Adam is singing with Queen because Brian and Roger chose him. He is the frontman today. Like it or not that is the way it is. Sure if it were up to some purists he would not be there cause they feel threatened for some strange reason. Some fans will think Adam sings better (oh the horror) and some will think Freddie, Paul, George or insert any name other than Adam can sing better. It does not matter. Freddie would be 71 so even if here, the show would not be the same. Adam is not Freddie but Freddie would not be an Adam Lambert either. Levine or Gaga or any other would not be the same as a show with Adam Lambert. These people are not interchangeable otherwise Brian and Roger would have gone after others earlier. Rolling eyes or ranting will not change anyone's opinion. If some can't enjoy or celebrate the collaboration between Adam and Queen because Adam is getting high marks, just remember it is not all about you. It is not even about Freddie cause those who loved him always will. His legacy is safe even if people and crazy over Adam. It is about Brian, Roger and Adam and the joy they are bringing to the fans today. It is too late to hope that Adam fails. The most one can do is pretend he is not good enough (or doesn't have a rock voice as if all rock voices are the same) if it makes you feel better. But the shows are a success because of his voice and showmanship and most fans are more than happy about it. Some will never be happy with him in the role and that is one reason I think the long speech about Freddie does not work. The resentment is in the blood of some and it will never go away. It will continue for generations to come, lol. Brian, Roger and Adam just ignore them and continue to put on great shows and the rest of us should ignore them as well. Queen and Adam are rocking arenas all over the world. Why that makes some angry is a mystery but they will get over it or not. Ok I've saved something special here...the point by point counterpoint. It is amazing how this argument comes up every single time there is a show and fans are loving Adam. The envy is inevitable. Not envious at all. Some fans love Adam, some fans like Adam, some don't. I highly enjoyed the show. So not envious in the slight. Every time this argument come up you bring up envy that I can't help but wonder if it's you who are envious that despite being dead for 25 years, reviewers, fans, Adam himself, and others still say that Freddie is the rock god and that it's an honor for him to be singing Queen songs? That you are worried somehow knowing Adam couldn't sell out these gigs on his own yet? He still may get there! Don't fret! When B&R hang it up, he may have found his song by then! Don't worry so much about trying to defend Adam We could argue all day but he is filling in because if Freddie was alive, there would be no choice. It would be Freddie up there whether his 71 year old self would still be good or not...it would be Freddie as he will always be considered Queen's frontman. Paul, Adam, everyone else will always end up being a footnote...and I'm not saying it's not an enjoyable footnote that millions of people are VERY happy about -myself included. I'm SUPER happy that Adam got me to see my idols one more time and he did a great job delivering the iconic songs that Freddie can't anymore. I would go 3 more times this year if I could and I will go back if they do another swing around the US. The first part is true but it's not because the feel threatened. They simply don't like Adam's take on things (oh the horror!) and it's not the same Queen they fell in love with. So they don't go. They actually rant very little. Most just say eh, not for me because Adam is too (whatever) or not enough (whatever) and that's it. And that's their viewpoint. I wasn't talking about the show or performance - I was talking pure box office and sales And whether you admit it or not. Queen + any of those artists would have sold the same. I could actually argue that Queen + Lady Ga Ga or whatever would have sold even better considering Ga Ga can sell out MSG and the like herself. Again Adam is a much better choice to sing with Queen so I'm happy they went that route...Q+LGG would have been awful I think. As far As B&R going after others earlier. See Paul Rodgers. See Robbie Williams. etc. They don't *GO AFTER* people. People interact with them, they enjoy working with someone and see what happens. Show me one time I have said anything about Adam getting "high marks"? I've never argued that he's not been successful in the role or that there aren't a large amount of fans enjoying the show. If you've read my review it's about 95% positive on Adam. This seems like paranoia here. Like you have to convince yourself.... You should listen to your man a bit more. Even he says it's about bringing Freddie's songs to a new audience. As long as Adam is singing Queen songs with Queen it is at least 1/4 about Freddie and even if some fans can't grasp that, I'm glad Adam does
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talon
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Post by talon on Aug 2, 2017 4:50:45 GMT -5
It's also not like they booted Paul out FOR Adam. I mean they chose Paul too and had a great time with him overall as well. Paul wanted to leave to go back to Bad Company and other solo projects he had going on. It just kind of ended. I know a TON of fans who had a blast with QPR. Both groups had a blast and as did the audiences. And that's okay too... I liked the one reviewers take on this when he said the QPR was attended by an older audience and QAL skewed younger first time around and even younger this time. Maybe the band names are really a misnomer. Queen and Paul Rogers works because they did some Queen songs (I'm thinking they didn't do Killer Queen?) and some Rogers songs. QAL should more likely be called Queen with Adam Lambert because aside from 2Fs which they've queenified it really is a Queen concert. I would agree with that conceptually. It was definitely skewed more older last time since Paul is from the same generation as Queen. Both Queen and Paul are classic acts. Even more than that they were marketed ONLY to classic rock audiences. Some people say Adam has brought a new generation to Queen and it's true he has - but not ONLY because of his voice but also because of Adam having a more current pop fanbase...and is far more mentioned on current radio stations, iheart, etc. etc. whereas QPR was NEVER mentioned on those outlets...they were stuck on the classic rock only dials...and a band that hadn't toured in the US especially since 1982 that was a lot of lost ground to make up. But with the additional marketing on non-Classic Rock mediums, the audience definitely has a younger slice to it this time around - which definitely also adds to higher sales in the US. You have the hardcore Queen fans, the casual Queen fans open for a good time, and the classic rock fans who went to see QPR. Now you have those same fans AND add in the pop crowd (both younger and older) that Adam attracts - thus more success - right off the bat before the tour even begins. THEN you add in how good the show is and how well Adam performs with B&R, it makes for a very engaging and successful combination. I mean being completely honest (and if you guys are too) - whether you LIKE any pop voice at all...a tour of Queen + Adam Levine or Queen + Lady Ga Ga or Queen + Bruno Mars - It would have sold. It may have been a GOD AWFUL combination and it might have not have worked at all (although Bruno Mars is pretty talented - that one would have been interesting - NOTE BEFORE I'M DRAWN AND QUARTERED - I DID NOT SAY BETTER - MERELY INTERESTING) (and yes I know the argument that this is what B&R want etc. I'm not saying it isn't. I'm not saying that it isn't important to the equation...and yes I understand the they wouldn't be touring without Adam etc. etc. The above statements simply are hypothetical about what sales would be assuming B&R had wanted to move forward with someone else...and IIRC and I'm not sure this was confirmed but wasn't there the story that the EMA where Adam first performed w/Queen outside AI was a gig initially offered to Lady Ga Ga who turned it down? This story might have gone a totally different direction...(and note I'm glad it went the way it did, believe me)) BUT I digress, it would have been marketed a lot more than QPR was just by sheer volume alone...I mean think about any classic rock act in the US. Unless they are coming to your local arena, you probably don't get much idea of when they are touring unless you listen to classic rock radio or read classic rock mags, etc. So in fact given that kind of marketing - I'd say that QPR sold pretty well in the US. In Europe and S.A. where they never lost their ground they did very very well indeed. And you are absolutely correct when Queen AND Paul Rodgers toured as you would say, they did about 80% Queen and about 20% Paul. Brian and Roger initially wanted to do a 50/50 split and in interviews Brian was just as excited about playing some of his favorite Paul tracks, but Paul steered it back towards the Queen direction given that Queen hadn't toured in just under 20 years at that point. This is partially what I was getting at - but as a whole the idea was fusing the two artists and their catalogues together. Queen WITH Adam Lambert is more about presenting much more close to a Queen show as possible with Adam standing in for Freddie. That's one reason I believe why we don't get more Adam tracks. Well that and Adam's tracks don't lend themselves as much to the core classic rock audience. It's not just standing in, yes as Adam doesn't ape Freddie and definitely adds his own spin on things as it would be dishonest to ask him to just be Freddie, but it's far more nostalgia based than QPR and it works because Adam is the probably the only one who *COULD* effectively check enough of the boxes off to work as a Queen show and yet remain distinct enough that it's not completely Vegas or We Will Rock You II. You couldn't put a Paul in that type of show. He simply doesn't fit. You could put Marc Martel, but that would be too ghastly and dishonest - almost like trying to put one over on the crowd that Freddie is alive. Adam is the perfect combination of traits to tread that line and give it life.
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talon
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Post by talon on Aug 2, 2017 3:44:23 GMT -5
Ok, I'm an Adam fan. He's the reason I'm on the internet everyday for 8 years, other than work. I don't know if I'm the biggest fan of Adam's voice. I love it, it's out of this world, it's day in day out amazing and 99% perfect. But he still can't do falsetto for the life of him. I'm really a fan of Adam, the person. I think he is amazing, the bomb, the shitzle (whatever that means), and any other superlative you can put to him. I am amazed at his graciousness, his work ethic, and his acknowledgement that he is a role model and that he takes that role as seriously as any other. I love "the speech". I look for it in all the concert videos. It's Adam the person in all his self knowledge glory. It's a goddamn highlight of the night for me. Now for Queen and Freddie. I knew a lot of the songs but as with most music in my life I never put songs to bands together. I'm not really much of a music listener. We filled up our CD selection 20 years ago and have pretty much only added Adam albums since. Adam has been my introduction to both Queen and Freddie as actual entities. My only connection to Freddie is via youtube videos. I don't go and listen to more than a few minutes of Queen original concert youtubes or music vids - who has time when you have Adam? But I don't need to listen to more than a few minutes to absolutely, in my bones, to my core, understand those who say Freddie was unique, one of a kind, gifted and amazingly unreplaceable. He can not be replicated. His legacy as the main face of Queen is etched forever. Adam doesn't have a Bohemium Rhapsody creation within him (who does), Adam doesn't strut the stage and grab the audience and command them. That's not who Adam is. It is who Freddie was. Adam plays with the audience, he invites them to participate, he lets them in on the jokes and as we’ve said he’s a master interpreter. I roll my eyes when Adam fans say he's the "better" frontman for Queen. You can pretty much compare Adam to anyone else dead or alive and for a Queen+1 and I'm ok with that but as the best frontman for Queen, there can only be one. And if someone's point is - well Adam's a better singer than Freddie I guess I go "well laudie da da, everybody's criteria is different?" We are not in American Idol anymore nor are we in an opera house. (although I do love the technical discussions too) This obsession with my idol is better than your idol is not fascinating. Now QAL and Adam's part in it is real and it's spectacular and I'm gutted that I didn't get to see it in person this year. </img> </img> Now that I can get behind 110%
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talon
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Post by talon on Aug 1, 2017 23:44:03 GMT -5
Talon, not to go off on a tangent, but something you said has me wondering. What exactly is John's involvement in decision-making at this stage? Did he have to sign off on Adam, all of these tours, the song selection, etc. How much say does he have and is it a 4-way thing, like exactly 25% per original member? Does Jim Beach make the decisions on behalf of Freddie's estate? Sorry for so many questions. I know John doesn't talk to Brian or Roger but I assume he has an attorney who intervenes on his behalf. Well it's not exactly all known how it goes down but I do know some specifics and guess at others. A long time ago he gave his blessing for Brian and Roger to use the name and go out on tour. He *MAY* have been a part of vetoing Robbie Williams as there is a story that after they teamed on WATC. The story in the Sun stated: However grain of salt. I have heard he said that but didn't realize he was talking to a reporter. BUT regardless moving on. Queen Productions is a 4-way split. Brian, Roger, John, and Freddie's estate which Jim Beach represents. He does make the decisions though I'm sure he hears from Freddie's family and most likely Mary Austin a bit too (the subject of "Love Of My Life") - though that's my speculation. Brian and Roger don't hear from John socially (he's become a bit of a recluse.) BUT I still hear that when he doesn't like something they hear from him or from email etc. From what I hear also is that B&R send John specs of product and if they don't hear back from him they move forward... He probably has as much say as he wants as far as touring goes but doesn't really get involved. I know it's considered an open invite. Everytime they start a world tour, there's an open invite for John to come back. As I said before he allows them to use the name with his blessing to tour with Paul and again with Adam...although I think that was an initial blessing back in 2004 - As in use the name and tour unless you hear from me kind of thing. As far as production and song choice - I doubt he gets involved since he's not actually doing the tour. BUT I'd say he definitely gets 25% of the profit. He was always the businessman of the group anyways, lol. I think his heart was broken when Freddie died. John was the quiet one and was the last to develop into songwriting...which was COMPLETELY supported and nurtured by Freddie who kept drawing more and more out of him...And he was never a real rock and roll guy preferring motown type stuff, etc. and Freddie loved the idea and jumped into John's ideas headlong. I think John felt almost protected by Freddie within the group. Freddie dying hit John hard and he also then didn't have that strong supporter in his corner. He and Brian seemingly butted heads a lot. I think John just slowly didn't see any point in continuing as he had already begun to hate the music business before Freddie had passed. In fact if Freddie hadn't passed, I still think John might have retired in the 90s. BUT he was always good with money, his investments, and he knows what he helped build so he'll remain protective.
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talon
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Post by talon on Aug 1, 2017 23:16:35 GMT -5
I would like to proffer my sincere gratitude to EVERYONEONE here for providing all the great information, recaps, and videos which are posted and shared with all of us! I seldom post, but I am here every single day reading everything. I marvel that we live in a world that allows us to watch HD videos on our smart TVs of a concert happening far away. Special thanks to Talon for all he contributes to this site.....I love getting the history of the band and its music. It prompted me to look deeper into Queen, read biographies, and understand even more the importance of what I am seeing. They are master class artists still and it is an honor to watch them perform. Aww shucks Glad to be of service!
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talon
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Post by talon on Aug 1, 2017 23:15:14 GMT -5
Exactly! No one else had a say. Brian and Roger made their choice and looking at how well they have done with Adam out front, hard to argue with that choice. One of the best vocalists and sexy showmen out there is getting the job done, rocking the stage with Queen and making his presence known. Thankfully with that wise choice, they and the fans are having a blast. The success of this tour and the last one speak for itself! Fans have been showing up and leave having loved and enjoyed it. Adam is the perfect choice as stated many times by Brian and Roger. Case closed! For the record - I think Adam probably is the best choice for frontman. There are others that would be fine as well. My first choice just being Brian and Roger touring themselves in smaller venues doing VH1 storytellers type gigs with just themselves on vocals. But I understand that's got a limited audience and thus not a likely scenario.
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talon
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Post by talon on Aug 1, 2017 23:09:00 GMT -5
I actually think Roger and Brian have answered that question several times, especially back in 2014-2015. Exactly! No one else had a say. Brian and Roger made their choice and looking at how well they have done with Adam out front, hard to argue with that choice. One of the best vocalists and sexy showmen out there is getting the job done, rocking the stage with Queen and making his presence known. Thankfully with that wise choice, they and the fans are having a blast. It's also not like they booted Paul out FOR Adam. I mean they chose Paul too and had a great time with him overall as well. Paul wanted to leave to go back to Bad Company and other solo projects he had going on. It just kind of ended. I know a TON of fans who had a blast with QPR. Both groups had a blast and as did the audiences. And that's okay too...
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talon
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Post by talon on Aug 1, 2017 23:03:53 GMT -5
I actually think Roger and Brian have answered that question several times, especially back in 2014-2015. Well certainly Adam is better for the nostalgic driven world tours. I would agree with that. If it's about recording a new album and trying to be a different entity - well Paul did a better job there. Adam *could* - we haven't seen them try that though...
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