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Post by cassie on Apr 22, 2016 16:47:47 GMT -5
Bringing the technical article about Freddie's voice here, for future reference and discussion. Quote: New scientific study confirms the obvious: Freddie Mercury had an unparalleled singing voice A group of Austrian, Czech, and Swedish researchers sought out to examine the Queen singer's incredible vocals consequenceofsound.net/2016/04/new-scientific-study-confirms-the-audience-freddie-mercury-had-an-unparalleled-singing-voice/ Endquote. Trying to entwine the gooble-de-goop and attempting to extract something in common, plain English, I came up with the following: (Feel free to chime in, I am totally outside of my league here, and just trying to hang on...so corrections are welcome, as well as probably needed). a) Freddie was a Barritone, based on speaking voice. b) He trained his voice to sing through the complete tenor range (and quite a bit beyond) c) Based on their study, they define his range a F#2 - G5, 37 half-steps d) His vibrato is not quite as smooth and regular as Pavarotti's, but displays a distinct, controlled and specifically recognizable vibrato, that has to be interpreted as his specific and characteristic style of vibrato. It is more gruff sounding in nature. e) Sub-harmonics: During each vibration of the ventricular folds the vocal folds completed three oscillations. Similar vibratory patterns of the vocal and the ventricular folds as synchronized oscillators were observed in previous studies involving the same (14) and other singers. So, if I would translate this to what we know about Adam, the parallels are striking, and the differences are notable too. I would love to see these guys do a similar analysis for Adam's voice (and we could obviously provide sufficient samples, and should Adam be willing, he could provide any sample that might be missing). Anyhow: a) Adam is a tenor, based on speaking voice. b) He trained his voice to sing through the complete counter tenor range (and quite a bit beyond) c) Based on our own 'study', we seem to think his range a A2 - B5, 38 half-steps , is that right? d) my guess is that Adam's vibrato will be holding its own with the classically trained tenor voice, lacking the distinctive gruffness. Would be interested to read what these guys think. e) There must be smooth and regular sub-harmonics in place for Adam too. That is the famous '3-D dimension' that we all keep talking about, would love to know more abouthow this study would come out for Adam. This last talking point kind of reminds me of the Nikki Costa video (and obviously Adam is clowning around and therefore not singing with pure and pretty sound, and therefore most likely not with clean sub-harmonics), but the vibrations of the vocal folds can be seen here and compared to Nikki's, and that is pretty spectacular...so here it is the video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrG46ojeC5sI couldn't really follow the article, to be honest. It seemed like pseudo-science, but what do I know. Yes, Freddie was a baritone. Adam is a leggiero tenor. From what I understand of what Angelina has explained to me, that is the highest of the tenor voices. It is known for its light, effortless-sounding tone, flexibility, and almost baritone sounding low register. The countertenor, in contrast, has a different tone, sounding like a mezzo-soprano, not a male. Some say countertenors are actually using a highly developed falsetto to sing in the mezzo range. Others say the voice is naturally high. Experts don't agree, so what do I know? But Adam, despite the range of his voice, definitely sounds male to me. He also sings in full-voice on those ultra-high notes, with lots of power and round harmonics that I don't hear in countertenors. You are right that Adam has a very well-trained, flexible, controlled vibrato that he can alter to fit the style and genre of the song. Freddie, not so much. I don't pretend to be an expert on Freddie's voice, but what I have heard does not sound nearly as controlled. But, he was not a classically trained singer. Adam has an abundance of subharmonics in his voice. You are right, that is the 3-D sound we love. It is remarkable. They are what give his voice such a richness and roundness; what make his voice stand out above the rest of the instrumentals and backing harmonies. Don't understand how he does it, but he does it! As for the video, we are not really seeing the vocal folds/cords vibrating. They are further down in the throat and only can be seen with a laryngoscope. What we see vibrating are tissue at the back of the palate and the tonsils. |
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csquared
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Post by csquared on Apr 24, 2016 8:00:01 GMT -5
Just bringing this video over. I don't think I had seen it before. Range comparisons are always questionable for me, on multiple levels. But this is a vocal materclass thread, so I think, we should have this here, and be able to comment, if wanted. The video is fairly well researched for the Adam samples, less so for the others. On Freddie, he got imo a few Roger Taylor soundbites mixed in with Freddie's (i.e. UP) and for Brendon Urie he includes a few questionable notes at the end. He seems to be a Brendon Urie fan, and so let's him win, but seems to be fair and complementary to all the artists. Multiple people have pointed out that a) it does not matter, b) that Adam sounds better and c) that Brendon's highest notes should not be counted. It does not make a difference, it is just one person's opinion. But having these three singers compared in this way, hearing where one artist starts to strain, or another switches to head voice, is interesting to compare. www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1MivyMbKwETalking about vibrato, how does one actually do it? In the larynx? With your breath? Often on Idol, etc., you often see people producing it apparently by moving their jaw (I remember someone on Idol I think calling it "gospel jaw"), but Adam obviously doesn't do that, or only rarely his jaw might move at the end of a long glory note. Is vibrato learned or natural? I'm guessing if it's learned, and learned correctly, it's done like Adam does it ... |
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Post by cassie on Apr 24, 2016 9:54:03 GMT -5
Vibrato usually occurs naturally in a mature voice. However, it is also "learned." There are techniques for broadening it, narrowing it, making it faster, slower, or eliminating it. I'm not a vocal teacher, so I can't tell you how it is done, only that classically trained singers learn how. A variety of techniques. Adam has complete control of his vibrato, from what I have heard.
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Post by cassie on Apr 25, 2016 15:51:37 GMT -5
Masterclass Lady just discovered Come to Me Bend to Me on YT. What took her 7 years? masterclasslady.com/2016/04/25/masterclass-monday-adam-lamberts-extraordinary-version-of-come-to-me-from-the-musical-brigadoon/Oh! My! Goodness! If this isn ‘t the best thing I have heard in a long time, then I don’t know what is! Immortal Aria, a mother – son musical team on Facebook- shared this gem of a number performed by the talented Adam Lambert when he was 22-years-old. Listen – I have heard this classic musical theatre song performed countless number of times in my musical career. However, none can surpass the immaculate, exquisite, perfect interpretation of this number as mastered by the mega – talented Adam Lambert. When I wasn’t being transported to another dimension by the evenness and purity of his crystalline head voice, I was blown away upon hearing Adam’s phenomenal approach to his phrasing. And his musical ingenuity. And his ability to take artistic risks with confident technical skills. My favorite sections of this song occurred between 2:03-2:12 and 3:23- 3:36 in the audio timeline. The sustained vocal and breath control he exhibits during these special moments in this spectacular song are truly inspiring. It demonstrates that head voice rules in every vocal genre – something which I have stressed time and again in my Vocal MasterClass articles. Without it, the voice lacks transparency, refinement, evenness and coherent intonation. Have a listen and be amazed. Adam is truly one of American Idol’s greatest discoveries and this song pretty much sums up this very fact . Bravo Adam. No critique from me today! This is a “must-listen”, especially for singers. Take 4 minutes out of your Monday and go for a special musical ride with Adam Lambert. This is one MasterClass Monday you don’t want to miss. |
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Post by cassie on Apr 25, 2016 20:14:44 GMT -5
(Copying this over from the daily thread for archive purposes.)
Regarding the YT comparing vocal ranges:
FYI, a few of the pitch identifications are wrong. Not that it matters overall.
The point of the video is...... what? Who can groan, fry, sing, squeal the highest and lowest pitch, regardless of how it sounds, how controlled it is, whether it is full voice, head voice, or falsetto?
The fact is that in the classical genre, the scope of one's vocal range is not a criterion for how good the singer is. The range of one's modal voice (chest, mixed and head) helps to determine what type of voice one has, and what repertoire one can sing convincingly and well. Classical voice aficionados consider "usable range", which is the notes one can reliably, confidently, and repeatedly sing in performance, usually without relying on amplification. But, a singer with a greater usable range is not automatically the better singer.
In classical singing, a "great" voice is judged by
*the quality of its tone (purity, richness, roundness, resonance, fullness),
*the flexibility and agility in singing complicated, fast, ranging runs and riffs,
*the consistency of the tone from low to high, loud to soft, chest to head (no breaks in between, or weak spots),
*the sustainability,
*the ability to change the tone, weight and vibrato to fit the song and style,
*the ability to project the voice
*the consistency of the performances from night to night, venue to venue, repertoire to repertoire
Additionally, a "great" singer is one who is able to artistically portray emotional content thru their voice and evoke emotions from the audience, with their phrasing, use of appropriate tone/register, articulation, color, weight, volume, tempo and overall interpretation.
A singer with a two octave range who demonstrates the above things consistently would be considered "greater" than a singer with a three octave range who cannot. This video is a curiosity to me, but not in anyway a measure of the singers.
I don't have any idea how pop singers evaluate "great" pop singers.
PART 2: I forgot to mention that comparing ranges between singers with different types of voices makes no more sense than comparing how fast sprinters can run vs. marathon runners. Or how far. It is similar to comparing a baritone to a soprano.
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Post by bridgeymah on May 2, 2016 6:34:11 GMT -5
Not Adam related more just a vocal style comment from wading my way through the first couple of nights of blind auditions on The Voice Australia.
It seems to me that there is an epidemic of affected singing (I blame Adele)... especially among female singers although quite a few of the men - particuarly those indie types with funky hats and guitars. Growly, nasally, squeaky, weird diction - hardly anyone seems to just sing - I've only heard two so far (one guy who has only been singing for a year) and a girl who has a lovely quiet voice and style but who will get eaten alive once the battles kick in.
Quirky is one thing. Annoyingly affected something else again and that's the territory we seem to be in. Yep Adam has ruined me for most other singers...
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Post by cassie on Jun 16, 2016 19:52:14 GMT -5
Brought over from the daily thread for archive purposes.
Jun 16, 2016 3:26:47 GMT -4 3ku1 said:
For people in the know impartially would Adam be the greatest vocalist ever. Well he is at least up their With Freddie and Plant, Buckley, Tate e.t.c. I Remember he was named #1 at DDD forums Most Technically best singers of all time. I think he has the best technical live voice I have ever heard any genre. His technique and breath control is just phenominal. I mean you see him just showing off on songs like STL and WWTLF haha. I mean for years ppl have covered Queen songs on Singing Shows, and butchered them. And Queen have had a couple of lead singers since Freddie. But then Adams come along and hits all the notes, and does justice to Freddie in his sleep. Also his ability to cross genre is remarkable. I mean their is a reason why I rank Lambert above Hudson, Glover, Clarkson. Sanchez, Reinhart as the best vocalist Idol ever saw. Because he could do any genre, so diverse. I guess if we were in the 70's right now Adam would be the biggest music star on the planet. But I guess he is born in the wrong era.
Well, "greatest vocalist" is a term without definition.
In order to compare or rank vocalists validly, one needs to have objective, observable, measurable criteria. But, there are so many different styles of singing, so many different genres, it would be nigh to impossible to have one standard to evaluate all singers.
I think Adam has the "chops" in many different areas to rank right up there in a number of different genres. Which, as you pointed out, is remarkable in itself. I know of few singers who can cross genres as convincingly. Adam is basically a classically trained singer whose voice and technique could easily and naturally adapt to legitimate opera at the world class level (according to opera singer Angelina Kalahari, who has sung with the best). I can't name another opera singer who can as authentically sing heavy rock. It always sounds to me like an opera singer trying to be cool. Unsuccessfully.
If one of the criterion for "best" is range, Adam has an impressive one. But, it's more than just the span of notes. It's the ability to sing them fully, consistently, accurately, and with a variety of textures and tones. Adam's range is not the widest of any singer I have heard, but when coupled with the versatility and control of range, he is hard to top.
I spoke of breath control/support earlier. It is a skill that is not highly touted or sought after in pop singers. By and large, it is not necessary for the pop repertoire. It is essential for classical, theater and opera singers. I don't know how one would objectively measure the degree of breath control one has, but Adam's would definitely exceed the pop singers I have heard. He would fit right in with the professional classical singers, but I don't know if he would beat them all.
Articulation is another skill that is not really sought after in pop and rock singers. I rarely understand more than half of the words they sing live. Doesn't matter in those genres. In theater and opera, the lyrics are an essential component of the story line and emotional content. Because of his background and technical strength, Adam is able to articulate clearly up and down his range, soft to loud, in different styles.
What puts Adam in a very exclusive club of vocalists is his tone or timbre. Part of this is the anatomy/physiology he was gifted with at birth. His body is capable of rare resonance and clarity in a light, bright purity. Leggiero tenors are extremely rare in classical music, and Adam is one. But, there is a difference between having the raw equipment to be able to create a sound, and having the training, practice, determination, and discipline to develop that potential to the extent that Adam has. Adam is "one in a billion" because he has the rare natural potential combined with the best training and experience and the personal drive to sing anything and everything.
As difficult as it is to quantify these vocal traits, there are others that are even more difficult to measure. We have talked about how Adam emotes, connects deeply with the songs lyrics and melodies. He is a great interpreter of music and words. He also has developed an impressive rapport with an audience, coming off as humble, authentic, likable, funny, and joyous. Part of that is his theater background. Part of that is his natural personality. Part of it is his social intelligence.
Those are just some of the traits Adam has that, when combined, make him stand out as extraordinary. If one were able to hook him up to a machine and measure each trait individually, and the compare him to a thousand other "best" singers across genres, Adam might not come out as #1 on every test. But, cumulatively, he would be hard to beat.
That's the guy we are smart enough to follow and love.
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Post by cassie on Jun 16, 2016 19:56:42 GMT -5
Brought over from the daily thread for archive purposes.
22 hours ago sizzling63 said:
"Don't Stop Me Now"...OMG...so much energy!!! I know nothing about vocal technique but I keep wondering how Adam can not get completely out of breath when going full blast and non-stop and still not miss a note. When and how does he catch his breath? Simply amazing. I'm thrilled that Q&A are keeping DSMN on the setlist now - one of my favorites and I think its perfect for Adam, just like STL 
You may not know about vocal techniques, but you have spotted one of the hallmarks. Breath control/support is one of the foundations of great technique that everything is built on. It is a singer's power supply. It is the gas to the engine. Run out of breath and the phrases sound choppy with interruptions in the middle of thoughts and even syllables, which hampers the singer's ability to present a moving interpretation. Apply too much breath to a note and it cracks or goes sharp. Too little, and the note is flat. Without proper breath support the singer cannot produce a consistent tone throughout a phrase and throughout his range. A well-trained singer also plans WHERE to breathe to add meaning and drama to the lyrics. Like a skilled writer knows where to punctuate a poem or piece of prose. He doesn't just randomly grab a breath when he runs out. A technically proficient singer also knows how to sneak a quick breath in unnoticed while at the same time filling his lungs completely. He knows when to make the breath audible for effect and how to keep it from being heard the rest of the time. Lots has been made of Adam being able to hold a note for 22 seconds. That, in itself, while remarkable, is not the point of good breathing technique. It is just evidence of it. Evidence that he has masterful control of the power supply to do amazing things with his voice, even while walking, running, dancing, goofing, adjusting his earpiece and signaling his sound guy. Adam's breath control is one of the things that marks him as a highly trained, classically trained singer. It's wonderful to witness. |
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Post by cassie on Jun 16, 2016 19:58:46 GMT -5
Brought over from the daily thread for archive purposes
ETA: This is just my opinion, my reflections, not facts or declarations. Scroll if you wish.
First, let me preface this by saying I was not a Queen fan back in the day. I was not against them, and I enjoyed some of the big hits, but I never bought any of their records. I was pretty straight laced back then, and I think Freddie was a little too weird for me.
So recently, I decided to watch some of the old Queen concerts on YouTube in order to try and understand better what the mania about Freddie was all about. I was surprised to see that Freddie's performance and Adam's were actually quite different. I hadn't thought that Adam was in any way copying Freddie of course, but the whole feeling was different. And because Freddie's performance was so different from Adam's, the whole Queen performance felt different as well.
The classic Queen performances were raw and gritty and in your face. Forgive me for a uttering sacrilege, but they looked to me to be Freddie Mercury performances with some really good guys as a backing band. I did not notice Freddie interacting with the other band members much, nor the other band members interacting with the audience. Freddie's performance was high intensity, even manic. Despite him sometimes wearing ballet costumes, his movements were far from graceful. He was like a peacock, and he totally consumed that stage. Freddie's voice was powerful and in your face, but I wouldn't call it either pretty or refined. It was certainly all stadium rock and roll.
Queen + Adam Lambert looks, sounds, and feels like a different animal. It is a theatrical production, a spectacle. Classy. Royal. Regal. Polished. Like Freddie, Adam is compelling to watch, but for different reasons. His costume choices are more edgy high fashion than quirky individualism. Adam and Freddie can both stalk a stage, but Adam is a graceful panther as opposed to Freddie's strutting peacock.
Queen + Adam is visibly a collaborative effort. Adam, true to his musical theater training, shares the stage with Brian and Roger as equally important characters in the show. Brian and Roger have stepped out of the background, and embrace the spotlight comfortably and happily.
As for Adam's voice, it is highly trained, highly controlled, perhaps even calculated. He has considerable power like Freddie, but his tone is refined and pure, not raw and risky. I can see and hear his classical background. Whereas Freddie throws his songs out to the audience with abandon, Adam performs the songs as he would on a musical theater stage. Adam assumes different characters to tell the songs' stories in three acts.
Freddie and Adam both transparently love performing for and with a crowd. But I think Adam smiles a lot more, glowing with joy. In fact, the whole Queen + Adam experience seems infused with delight and joy that they are still out there, doing what they love more than anything, after all these years.
I now see why some fans feel obligated to say these new shows are not really Queen, and Adam can never be Freddie. How could he be? How could it be? It's a different time. In the world, in music, and in their lives. Adam is a different type of performer than Freddie. But, this iteration of QAL WORKS. On its own. Not as a recreation or as Karaoke or as only nostalgia. This is old, but new again. Classic Queen was great and unique. So is QAL.
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Post by cassie on Oct 9, 2016 9:05:29 GMT -5
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