Hello Everyone,
Theosgma, I agree with the others here. I have studied western astrology since the seventies, but fascinated to learn more about Vedic. I 've had an a interest in eastern medicine and Reiki healing since nursing school. Please continue on this subject.
Hi nocturnal
Thanks for your post. Along with your request to have me say more about Vedic astrology and the momentary lull (at least it was at the time I started to write this), I feel inspired to do another piece.
I am thinking I should probably take head-on one of the more impactful differences between W and V (going to resort to abbreviation of Western Astrology and Vedic Astrology since it is easier on the typing hands)
Hang in there with me guys as this one is more complicated.
This difference relates to how a planet gets located in the cosmos at any particular moment in time. To locate anything infers there has to be a reference point. This is as true for astronomical objects as it is for a terrestrial map. So what is the reference point for saying "my Moon was 23 degrees in Aquarius when I was born". That answer depends on whether you are talking about W or V!
Somewhere around 285 CE (Common Era - used to be called AD) W and V magically had their two different reference points coincide. This was a very active time for W (though I am not at all an expert on the history of W). Because of the coincidence, the issue of the different reference points and hence the "different" location of the same planet at a given time across the two systems was not a problem. I will explain what the different references points are below but just wanted to do the broad stroke now. As time passed, due to the astronomical phenomenon associated with these reference points, they diverged at a rate of 1 degree every 72 years. At this point in time, the difference between the two reference points is close to 24 degrees. That means when W says a planet is located at a particular degree in a particular sign, V says it is located around 24 degrees earlier which means most (not all) of the time, that planet will be in an earlier sign. If you have been following this, the implication is that your Sun, for example, might be in Cancer rather than Leo!
Whew, I think I broke that news as easily as I could! This throws adherents of W into an identity crisis and is an enormous part of the confusion and even non acceptance (hmmmm - non acceptance of something that is different from your view!) that V has experienced. It is not at all necessary to say one is right and the other is not. They are simply different. Just think of the information from a V chart as another lens on your experience in your particular incarnation. I tell my W clients, "you are happy getting information from Astrology and perhaps from some other techniques - whether they be mainstream or not (take your pick - tarot, hands, psychology, Enneagram, I Ching) so why stress over the fact that both W and V by using a different measurement derive useful information that can help you"?
OK. So what are the reference points? W measures where a planet is located by using the vernal equinox and equating it as 0 degrees Aries. This is going to require a tiny bit of astronomy. You might want to google some of the terms below so you can actually see some diagrams. I have great diagrams but no idea how to bring them in. If someone wants to give me a lesson, I would love to learn! We are going to need inserts if we are going to eventually make any headway.
As you know, the earth is tilted on its axis. If you take the equator and extend it out into space in all directions you can form a kind of plate. This plate is called the Celestial Equator because it is the earth's equator projected out into the celestial sphere. That plate will be tilted by 23 1/2 degrees from the Sun's path as we observe it moving through the seasons. The path along which the Sun moves every year is called the ecliptic. Think of the zodiac as a racetrack around 16 degrees wide and the ecliptic (path of the Sun) is smack in the middle of it and all the planets can move north and south of the center but have to stay within the "fences".
Now, with my apologies to those in the Southern Hemisphere, it is our experience that we see in an annual cycle of the Sun moving around the earth that the Sun at the Winter Solstice is the furthest south it will be and lowest in the sky. This is the shortest day of the year.
So at the winter solstice, the Sun is the furthest it will get from the celestial equator in the southern direction. Then the Sun will travel north along the ecliptic and actually intersect the Celestial Equator. This is exactly the half way point between the furthest south it will travel and the furthest north. That intersection point is the vernal equinox - the time when day and night are equal length. It will continue traveling north until it reaches the furthest north it can be in a particular locality and this is called the summer solstice. It then seems to reverse directions and head south. It crosses the ecliptic again and that is the autumn equinox and keeps heading south until the winter solstice point is reached.
W says that the crossing point of the Sun as it heads north - vernal equinox - is the place where the Sun is at 0 degrees Aries and they measure everything from that point of reference.
Here is the problem. The earth spins like a top on its axis. Ever see a top spin? It has a definite wobble and if you look carefully, the pointy part of the top makes its own little circle when it wobbles. The earth also has a little wobble and due to that wobble, the Sun does not come back to exactly 0 degrees Aries at the time of the next Vernal Equinox. It crosses the ecliptic a little bit short. This is called precession of the Vernal Equinox. It will actually move backwards through the years until it goes all the way around and comes back to true 0 degrees Aries and that takes approximately 26,000 years!!!! So if you use the vernal equinox as your reference point and say it marks 0 degrees Aries, at some point in time, you will say a planet is at 0 degrees Aries when it is actually at 0 degrees Libra! Libra is the constellation that is half way around the zodiac from Aries and therefore 180 degrees away. The vernal equinox at 0 degrees Libra would be halfway through the precession cycle and to give you some perspective, it would be 13,000 years from 285 CE when the vernal equinox actually was at true 0 degrees Aries.
One of the reasons astronomers are so down on astrologers is that right now there is already a gap of 24 degrees between true planetary positions and the planetary positions W use in their charts and calculations. So an astronomer will observe through their telescope that the Moon is in Sagittarius (it can be observed against the backdrop of the stars that make up that constellation in the actual sky) and the W astrologers will say that the Moon is in Capricorn.
So how does V measure a planet? Well there happens to be a very bright fixed star called Spica in modern astronomy and Citra in Sanskrit. It is exactly at 0 degrees Libra - 180 degrees across the zodiac and essentially acts like an arrow pointing to that place in the cosmos that is the "official" 0 degrees Aries. Therefore when a V astrologer tells you your Sun is 20 degrees of Cancer, that is where the Sun was actually observed to be when you were born. However, a W astrologer would say your Sun is in Leo at around 14 degrees. Yikes!!!! More below on this quandary.
Astrology that use the vernal equinox as its reference point is called tropical astrology and astrology that uses a fixed star as a reference point is called sidereal astrology (star based). For calendar purposes, V astrology uses tropical positions because you need to planet your crops in the right seasons but for determining currents of karma, it uses the true sidereal positions of the planets.
So I am often asked, "How come my Sun is not in Aries?" or the equivalent question when I encounter someone used to W. This is the reason and it is true for all the calculations - all the planets, rising sign etc.
But, my client will say, Aries fits me perfectly!!! Well, no worries. Often those characteristics will show up through other significations in the V chart. The V system is not centered on the Sun nor so much centered on the meanings of the solar signs. In fact in the Vedas, the 27 lunar signs were the only ones mentioned. This does not mean that the Sun does not contribute to a chart. Everything contributes. However, the emphasis on what is primary is very different.
Because W and V use the same zodiac and mainly the same planets (subject for another day), there is angst about how to resolve this fundamental difference. No angst. They are two different systems. They tell their own version of how we are patterned. They are both useful and do not have to be reconciled.
I am done now. Please don't go running off screaming never to return!!
so, when I calculated my Vedic sun, moon, and ascending, I went from Aries poster child (all 3 Aries) to Pisces.....
