nic42
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Ni l'un ni l'autre, je suis, j'étais et resterai moi
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Post by nic42 on Feb 5, 2017 5:21:59 GMT -5
ETA: there is actually one song in Adam's present catalog, where I do get the feeling that it came about organically, and that is Outlaws of Love. One of the best songs of all, imo. Even though the production treatment that it later got almost killed it. But listen to any version, where Adam sings this acoustically. It always gets a strong reaction. Melody and lyrics form a magical union. I love this song, forgot it on my list of songs that are my favorites the other day, but should have put it down. Incidentally, did you know, you get the basic melody of this song, if you go to a piano and play only the black keys. They form a beautiful sound together, but no trained piano player ever plays only the black keys. But watch any child or anyone who does not know how to play the piano, use the instrument. They reach for the black keys. I would not be surprised at all, if that is how OOL started. With Adam playing around with his fingers on the black keys of a piano. Voila! More songs like that please, and then keep Dr. Luke off of it, which WB is guaranteed to do, and all should be just fine. Adam has it in him, he just needs to find a way to develop what is naturally given to him. QED
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marionm
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Post by marionm on Feb 5, 2017 5:50:29 GMT -5
As we see it's hard to pin down what "reading music" actually means. Calling working on a sheet of music with a clavier next to it and searching for every note on the piano would be a bit of a stretch (strictly speaking yes, but your learning). Reading sheet music somewhat fluent can be regarded a reading music (I think) but it remains a vague expression. I'd compare learning to read sheet music like learning the alphabet. It takes it's time (as Cassie sayed: years), it can be VERY chewy. Playing guitar myself for the last five years rather dedicatedly it took me around 3 years to read the notes somewhat fluently, while timing remained a bit of myth. Now after five years timing has gotten better. (Unfortunately working on my musical skills is not my only obligation at the moment ) When speaking about musicians the term I think is used to express how they worked on a daily basis. For example if you were to work with me as a guitarist. You'd have to sent me the music sheets so I could practice for myself and then rehearse it together. If you were to work with Tommy Joe Ratliff you'd have to give him some kind of recording and he'd sound it out on the guitar for himself. As for Adam he sayed he'd love to be able to play and I agree with you Craazyforadam that it probably would give him even more insight/depth as a musician. Although I disagree on the creative part. He's sayed a few times he works best with people writing music. As I understand it, it's where his creativity simply works the best. Naturally, not because it is limited when he doesn't have someone to play an instrument. A contrary example would be Taylor Swift who sits down for herself writes lyrics and tryies out different chords and sees what fits...
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Post by melliemom on Feb 5, 2017 7:50:04 GMT -5
Boy I can't wait to read about the game today and I don't like football..
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Post by cassie on Feb 5, 2017 9:15:27 GMT -5
So we disagree on the guitar question, and agree on the music reading one. Fine. I am not expecting that everyone agrees, but it would help to get our terminology in sync, rather than say the same thing and make it sound like there is an actual difference. ......... I actually agree with you on all your points, including playing guitar. If Adam could skillfully play the piano, it would be even better in giving him a platform for composing, and for making him more versatile as a musician. Your post sounded like you thought I was in a debate with you, which I am not. I was not even responding to your post directly. I got on my soapbox a bit in response to the consistent meme I read and hear (not necessarily on this forum) that Adam is somehow lacking if he does not play an instrument or read music. And secondarily that reading music is a simple task, as is becoming proficient on an instrument. And thirdly, that singing as Adam does is something most people can do. I feel strongly that Adam is an amazing, remarkable, exceptional singer, and that is something to be cherished and admired all on its own. He got that way in great part from his dedication and intense work on his vocal instrument. Probably because of my classical background, I don't get why the skill /talent of composing music is expected from a performer. I don't expect Pavarotti to compose operas, or Yo Yo Ma to compose cello concertos. I don't expect Julie Andrews to write broadway musicals. I don't expect Tom Hanks to write movie scripts. The implied criticism of Adam because he doesn't play an instrument, read music, or compose incredible songs all on his own rankles me. As does the lack of general recognition of how incredible Adam is as a vocalist and performer. That one has appeared again in light of this current flood of PR about QAL. Folks saying he is not the singer/performer that Freddie was, that Mark Martel is, that George Michael was. They may all sing some of the same repertoire and genre, but Adam's voice and skill are in a totally different league. I don't expect everyone to love Adam's singing and performance. That is a matter of personal taste and preference. But, I get bent out of shape when everyone doesn't recognize that Adam's ABILITY as a singer/performer is second to none. That he is "one in a billion." All this has nothing to do with your post, and everything to do with my own perspective on music, performing, singing, and Adam.
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Post by Jablea on Feb 5, 2017 9:22:47 GMT -5
My opinion? Of course Adam can read music enough to get the gist of the lyric and timing. He only has to know that notes on the bottom are lower than those on the top and that more notes between vertical lines means faster and notes with a curved line between them slide into each other. Memorize the two C positions and adjust from there. He had singing lessons for yearssss. I doubt very much that he was just given a sheet with words on it and his hired teachers would consider that sufficient for a vocalist. Doesn't he warm up singing scales?
But to Adam and Neil does that mean he "reads" music? Well I can do as much as the above and I can pick out the one note melody on a piano with my right hand and if I practice really hard I could memorize a series of two hand chords. Of course I completely forget to look for what scale it's in so if it's a bflat or fsharp or whatever those things are then that means a lot of pencil notes because I'm stuck in C and 4/4 time. My son in marching band on the other hand not only has to read music but play it while marching in multiple time signatures and patterns, he's way above me. Meanwhile another band kid hears full multi-instrumental concertos in his head and writes music for the philharmonic.
Adam has said back before Idol that he played around with songs using computer programs. You need to know some basics to add the right drum rhythm and other instruments. He can still do that today and with his phone if he's on the road and gets a melody in his head all he has to do is hit record and it's saved and he can replay it and weave harmonies around it.
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happy
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Post by happy on Feb 5, 2017 14:03:43 GMT -5
My opinion? Of course Adam can read music enough to get the gist of the lyric and timing. He only has to know that notes on the bottom are lower than those on the top and that more notes between vertical lines means faster and notes with a curved line between them slide into each other. Memorize the two C positions and adjust from there. He had singing lessons for yearssss. I doubt very much that he was just given a sheet with words on it and his hired teachers would consider that sufficient for a vocalist. Doesn't he warm up singing scales? But to Adam and Neil does that mean he "reads" music? Well I can do as much as the above and I can pick out the one note melody on a piano with my right hand and if I practice really hard I could memorize a series of two hand chords. Of course I completely forget to look for what scale it's in so if it's a bflat or fsharp or whatever those things are then that means a lot of pencil notes because I'm stuck in C and 4/4 time. My son in marching band on the other hand not only has to read music but play it while marching in multiple time signatures and patterns, he's way above me. Meanwhile another band kid hears full multi-instrumental concertos in his head and writes music for the philharmonic. Adam has said back before Idol that he played around with songs using computer programs. You need to know some basics to add the right drum rhythm and other instruments. He can still do that today and with his phone if he's on the road and gets a melody in his head all he has to do is hit record and it's saved and he can replay it and weave harmonies around it. Yup, that's pretty well what I meant when I said he could read music to a certain extent. I remember in primary school, we had to practice the "Do, re, mi" scales, jumping intervals and learning to sight read some simple songs. (Not that I can do that now!) I also took piano lessons and played in a band and I found reading music to play an instrument much easier than for the voice. Adam is a perfectionist and I suspect his reading music skills are limited and I can see why he says what he says.
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Post by melliemom on Feb 5, 2017 15:41:09 GMT -5
So we disagree on the guitar question, and agree on the music reading one. Fine. I am not expecting that everyone agrees, but it would help to get our terminology in sync, rather than say the same thing and make it sound like there is an actual difference. ......... I actually agree with you on all your points, including playing guitar. If Adam could skillfully play the piano, it would be even better in giving him a platform for composing, and for making him more versatile as a musician. Your post sounded like you thought I was in a debate with you, which I am not. I was not even responding to your post directly. I got on my soapbox a bit in response to the consistent meme I read and hear (not necessarily on this forum) that Adam is somehow lacking if he does not play an instrument or read music. And secondarily that reading music is a simple task, as is becoming proficient on an instrument. And thirdly, that singing as Adam does is something most people can do. I feel strongly that Adam is an amazing, remarkable, exceptional singer, and that is something to be cherished and admired all on its own. He got that way in great part from his dedication and intense work on his vocal instrument. Probably because of my classical background, I don't get why the skill /talent of composing music is expected from a performer. I don't expect Pavarotti to compose operas, or Yo Yo Ma to compose cello concertos. I don't expect Julie Andrews to write broadway musicals. I don't expect Tom Hanks to write movie scripts. The implied criticism of Adam because he doesn't play an instrument, read music, or compose incredible songs all on his own rankles me. As does the lack of general recognition of how incredible Adam is as a vocalist and performer. That one has appeared again in light of this current flood of PR about QAL. Folks saying he is not the singer/performer that Freddie was, that Mark Martel is, that George Michael was. They may all sing some of the same repertoire and genre, but Adam's voice and skill are in a totally different league. I don't expect everyone to love Adam's singing and performance. That is a matter of personal taste and preference. But, I get bent out of shape when everyone doesn't recognize that Adam's ABILITY as a singer/performer is second to none. That he is "one in a billion." All this has nothing to do with your post, and everything to do with my own perspective on music, performing, singing, and Adam. I so agree with your opinion cassie and thankyou so much for posting it.. It bothers me so much that there is much of if only Adam did this or that by some . It's as tiring for me as when I read he's no Freddie..Singers used to be singers,song writers used to be song writers,now you have to do it all .. WHY I'll never know.. If you have one of the best voices, if not the best voice on the planet why do you have to write songs.. I mean there are song writers who can't sing ,should they then give up song writing..IMHO, It's just getting so competitive out there that It seems a bit unbareable for an artist. No wonder some drink ,do drugs, or just off themselves.
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marionm
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Post by marionm on Feb 5, 2017 15:57:38 GMT -5
melliemom and cassie I agree with you both. Nobody expects a Max Martin,Lang Lang or David Garrett to sing. So why expect signers so play instruments, write, produce etc.? I do want to throw in one point. I think the landscape of music contracts has shifted. When Jackson five started out at Mowtown contracts were just like that. The singer was simply the singer with no creative input. Their father got them to a contract where they had a little more artistic freedom. I think nowadays musiclabels can't really offer such contracts where they limit the singer anymore and I think it shifted because singers/artists WANT to write and have more input. btw. cassie : I know you appreciate unique voices that's why I wouldn't want you to miss out on someone calles Tori Kelly. Have you heard of her? I do think she is in way the female counter part to Adam. Hint: check out her cover of Michael Jacksons PYT
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Post by melliemom on Feb 5, 2017 16:15:32 GMT -5
melliemom and cassie I agree with you both. Nobody expects a Max Martin,Lang Lang or David Garrett to sing. So why expect signers so play instruments, write, produce etc.? I do want to throw in one point. I think the landscape of music contracts has shifted. When Jackson five started out at Mowtown contracts were just like that. The singer was simply the singer with no creative input. Their father got them to a contract where they had a little more artistic freedom. I think nowadays musiclabels can't really offer such contracts where they limit the singer anymore and I think it shifted because singers/artists WANT to write and have more input. btw. cassie : I know you appreciate unique voices that's why I wouldn't want you to miss out on someone calles Tori Kelly. Have you heard of her? I do think she is in way the female counter part to Adam. Hint: check out her cover of Michael Jacksons PYT Tori Kelly is a terrific singer..
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