murly
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Life's my light and liberty and I shine when I want to shine.
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Post by murly on Nov 26, 2013 14:20:12 GMT -5
Political correctness can go too far--but sometimes what is politically correct is also morally and legally correct, and I hate it when someone is called on their racism or sexism and tries to dismiss it by saying sarcastically, "Oh, sorry! I guess I wasn't being politically correct!" Intent matters a lot here. Obviously people are going to have different opinions on the intent of Julianne Hough's Halloween costume, or Katy Perry's Japanese-inspired performance. I don't see either case as an intent to mock another race. Others disagree. I like to see intelligent conversations about these matters with an effort to avoid name-calling or accusations.  I just want to respond to one thing here. I don't think one needs to see these things as intentionally mocking of another race, or even unintentionally mocking, to think of them as problematic. I totally agree that neither of these examples were meant to mock anyone. In a way, it was their very innocence that was the problem. Both Katy and Julianne Hough come across as pretty darn clueless to me. Part of the legacy, I think, of the success of the anti-PC movement, is that many people are raised under the illusion that there's no longer any racism, etc, in the country. That that's a historical problem, left in the past. And the result is the kind of ignorance that leads to Julianne Hough innocently painting her face brown and not meaning anything by it. I don't think that makes her a racist at all. I think what it makes her is ignorant of very real racism--of the legacy that we've inherited as a culture, and must now own. ETA: just by way of contrast, I think when, say, a drag queen knowingly dresses up as a woman and then performs a kind of parody of "queerness," that's a example of a way in which being conscious of what one is doing can totally change the meaning and make what seems like "mockery" actually be intelligent social commentary Julianne Hough was trying to look like a character in a TV show. If I were trying to look like Marilyn Monroe, I would don a blonde wig because I have brown hair. Darkening her skin a little to look like a specific character is a far cry, in my opinion, from the blackface of minstrel shows which were obvious attempts to mock the physical characteristics of African Americans. I know some will always feel that this history makes any attempt of a white person to look like another race inherently racist, but I cannot, in my mind, connect the two. I don't think she did anything wrong. Although I respect the opposing viewpoint, I'd just like to see us relax a bit when I can't see that any harm was done. |
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Post by jean1010 on Nov 26, 2013 14:24:55 GMT -5
Midwifespal said:
(sorry if, in the years it's taken me to write up this pretty shoddy response, other people have said the same thing more concisely and better!)
On the contrary, you said what I was trying to say beautifully and succinctly. Love your post!
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Post by melliemom on Nov 26, 2013 14:31:27 GMT -5
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Post by Q3 on Nov 26, 2013 14:33:39 GMT -5
But the difference is ridiculing versus embracing a character! To get lost in another "person/identity". Should I be offended at males that don women's clothing and pretend to be "women"? Actually I am hugely offended. I am offended because I believe there is an expectation that women look a certain way, wear specific garments, apply horrible products to their bodies. But I tolerate it. And honestly, at times, I am entertained by it. So I guess my husband and I were ignorant and clueless when we applied his black face. we not only offended blacks but a religious group! BAM. Hiphop style permeated this culture a couple of decades ago. Fashion straight from the prison yards. I am quite aware of black history. Ok getting inappropriately off topic. outa here Interesting question. "What is the difference is ridiculing versus embracing a character?" Dressing as a Rasta singer with dark makeup doesn't seem offensive in any way to me. But except for the makeup, I am not sure it has anything to do with what Julianne Hough did -- dressing up as Suzanne "Crazy Eyes" Warren (played by Uzo Aduba) which just seems totally offensive to me. US Mag says a friend told her not to do it and that it was offensive -- she did not listen. And she had to know it would be a problem -- she really could not be so clueless. ETA: My mentioning the history of blackface in the US was my attempt to say that there are some things that are more offensive than others because of cultural context. A black person could do Halloween dressed as a white person and would so many people be offended? Probably not because the history is different. I am Jewish and I was not offended that Eddie Murphy played an old Jewish man in a movie, but I would be offended if someone showed up at a Halloween party dressed up as a stereotype of a Jewish person (pretty much what Eddie Murphy did in a comedy movie). It is all about context. But I still cannot see what was offensive about Katy Perry's performance to anyone. |
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FanOfTheMan
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Post by FanOfTheMan on Nov 26, 2013 14:41:27 GMT -5
I totally agree with Adam. I think current PC can and does go too far, too often. I have many thoughts on the subject but I won't express them all at this time because they get my blood boiling. I will say, however, that I think people have been fired and/or deemed a scourge on society and their lives virtually ruined for very minor "offenses", some that took place innocently and years ago in a different day and time. I don't like living in a society where one spoken word or innocuous action can destroy a sometimes decades long career. Many times those self-righteous over-involved people take offense when the actual people who would be concerned/offended are not. I hate that. I remember when those same over-reaching people tried to rid all sports teams of names they deemed inappropriate. Case in point, a university that had a "Seminoles" football team. It took the Seminole Nation coming forth and saying that they had no problem with the name - they felt it honored their Nation. Then those PC'ers finally bowed their noses out of the university/Seminoles business. Oh crap - I ranted and didn't want to do that.  |
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Post by nonchallance on Nov 26, 2013 15:03:26 GMT -5
I totally agree with Adam. I think current PC can and does go too far, too often. I have many thoughts on the subject but I won't express them all at this time because they get my blood boiling. I will say, however, that I think people have been fired and/or deemed a scourge on society and their lives virtually ruined for very minor "offenses", some that took place innocently and years ago in a different day and time. I don't like living in a society where one spoken word or innoculous action can destroy a sometimes decades long career. Many times those self-righteous over-involved people take offense when the actual people who would be concerned/offended are not. I hate that. I remember when those same over-reaching people tried to rid all sports teams of names they deemed inappropriate. Case in point, the University of Florida Seminoles football team. It took the Seminole Nation coming forth and saying that they had no problem with the name - they felt it honored their Nation. Then those PC'ers finally bowed their noses out of the university/Seminoles business. Oh crap - I ranted and didn't want to do that. True. Political correctness in not bad thing, but overused it can be very dangerous. The same applies to religion, often used as justification for very bad actions. People can destroy every good idea. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 15:05:52 GMT -5
I felt like I gained insight from the article about the performance online at Psychology Today. The author is Asian American.
When people say, I don't see it, do they mean they have not read anything expressing offense or they don't agree that the person should have found offense?
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Post by wal on Nov 26, 2013 15:12:06 GMT -5
Adam Lambert @adamlambert
Sooo excited for my show in Miami at @fontainebleau on Saturday, November 30! See you there? #BleauLive
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Post by evergreen on Nov 26, 2013 15:12:29 GMT -5
Melliemom - please keep posting the link to MTN - when I see it I usually click on it. It's easy to scroll past if anyone wishes to. You are a great cheeleader!![]() |
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Post by melliemom on Nov 26, 2013 15:16:38 GMT -5
Melliemom - please keep posting the link to MTN - when I see it I usually click on it. It's easy to scroll past if anyone wishes to. You are a great cheeleader!![]() Ok Thanks.. on it..LOL |
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