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Post by mszue on Nov 26, 2013 16:09:10 GMT -5
Political correctness is itself a term used to ridicule and demonize those that take offence at the words of others. It is a often used as a way to minimize the demands of courtesy and consideration and to shift the attention from the offence-giver to the offence-recipient. Sometimes the offence taken is out of proportion to that given, and sometimes the offence given is accidental. But the person taking offence should not be ridiculed for that offence, especially if the ridiculer is not of the same 'demographic' as that offended....whew...trying to be inclusive is not easy. Which of course, is the whole issue.
So....if you are not an Asian woman...no, you probably won't find that offensive but that does not mean that the Asian woman who does deserves to be ridiculed. Many times we ignore offensive humour because the fact is, the brunt of the humour will be themselves ridiculed rather than the perpetrator held to account for their thoughtlessness.
DO NOT MISINTERPRET MY NEXT WORDS...DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH OR MAKE MORE OF IT THAN WHAT I AM SAYING!! PLEASE...
I am a blonde. Spent most of my adult life as a blonde hairdresser. For close to 10 years, I had every blonde joke written emailed to me each time a new one came out. Was I insulted...not as a rule. I even laughed...the first few times. But trust me....I did not particularly enjoy them after the first time...they were almost always demeaning and insulting....I dare you to come up with one that was complimentary on any level!! Furthermore, if you substitute "Jewish" or "African American" or "Native/First Nations" for "Blonde" and tell me how you feel??
Truly, as a blonde woman I have never had the nerve to actually SAY what I just wrote...why??? because a bunch of people would ridicule me and call me out as ridiculous and unfairly stifling another's right to free speech and be funny....and frankly, I did not care and did not take it personally. But then, being blonde was a choice that I could alter and that makes a big difference. Still...it would be the rare human being that would actually think back on their 'humour' and say...hmmm...never thought of it that way.
I AM NOT MAKING A STATEMENT ON ADAM'S OR ANYONE ON THIS FORUM'S WORDS, nor am I making any statement re Katy's performance...I did not even see it. BUT I am making a statement about this habit so many have of claiming anything they do not agree with or understand as mere Political Correctness. That term is meant to silence people and it works...but it is unfair...a form of hitting below the belt. It is easy to accidentally offend...we all do it now and again. That itself if unintended, is easy to rectify....but don't say...oh you are just imposing PC...just say "I am sorry"...I did not mean to offend"....That is all that is needed.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 16:17:11 GMT -5
I felt like I gained insight from the article about the performance online at Psychology Today. The author is Asian American. When people say, I don't see it, do they mean they have not read anything expressing offense or they don't agree that the person should have found offense? I watched Katy Perry's performance, and I saw the costumes and sets as an homage to Japanese culture. I was surprised when I saw people calling it racist. So, I read a few of the articles expressing this opinion and I am still bit mystified. A few things I observed: - None of the articles I read were written by Japanese or Japanese-American writers. They were Indian, Korean, and non-Asian authors. So it made me wonder -- do Japanese-Americans find the performance to be offensive? After all, it was a depiction of their culture. Also, the fact that Katy Perry was dressed as a geisha seemed to be a problem for these writers; they associate "geisha" with submissiveness to men and the subjugation of women. Again I wonder -- do geishas have such a negative image in Japanese culture, particularly among Japanese women? Also, there were no demonstrations of male domination or aggression or female submission in KP's performance, so why automatically assume that is what was being projected, simply because she was dressed as a geisha and singing about unconditional love? - At what point does admiration for a culture and wanting to pay homage to it become "appropriation"? Here is a quote from the Psychology Today article (written by an Indian-American man): "[Katy Perry's performance] sounds wonderful, until the image tangles with my own history and experience as an Asian American, as I've watched our cultures misappropriated and commodified time after time. Frankly, many of us feel used as props to glorify White artists." I suspect that Katy Perry likes and admires Japanese culture; suppose she genuinely thought she was being respectful and paying homage to Japanese culture. So why would her performance be viewed in a negative light? Can only Japanese-American singers use Japanese imagery? The U.S. is composed of people of many cultures; all of those cultures are part of who we are as a nation. Should we limit Caucasian/White artists to using the imagery of the cultures of their ancestors? Where does respect and admiration end and appropriation begin? I have Japanese art in my home -- am I appropriating Japanese culture, or (as I intended) decorating my home with art that I consider to be supremely beautiful by artists whom I admire? In the case of some of these writers, there is also an undercurrent of paranoia: in his follow-up article today the author of the Psychology Today article wrote this: "Was her intent to be racist? Superficially, probably not; I’d like to give her the benefit of the doubt. She wanted to entertain, sell albums and have fun, I’m sure. But part of me wonders if angering a minority and generating a backlash against them was part of her marketing plan." Really??? It's comments like this that make me wonder whether the writers of some of these articles are getting carried away. I realize that many people of Asian descent have experienced prejudice in this country -- the list of transgressions is very long indeed. But I wonder if sometimes anger and resentment over historical treatment, however justified, can make one see insults and offense where they don't really exist. Sorry for the long post. Just thought I would share.  |
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Post by melliemom on Nov 26, 2013 16:21:05 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaJ3FLqCEQkNOW at 2,534,050... To use repeat please see today's Adamtopia page 3 three down Ayleim 'Click this' and there you are.. Ayleim tried to teach me how to do this ,but I'm not great with the computer.. Thank you for your help.. just not my thing : OK then ,this is my last nag for the day and I'm off to listen to MTN on repeat...LATER
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Post by theosgma on Nov 26, 2013 16:21:34 GMT -5
Never enough reminders for me. Keep 'em coming. |
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Post by nica575 on Nov 26, 2013 16:39:21 GMT -5
Many of you expressed your view on the "PC" angle of the recent "rant" - very interesting reading. I haven'e watched AMAs last night so I have no comment re KP's performance.
Instead, I'd like to solicit your opinions on Adam's old and persistent "it ain't that deep" idea... What is he talking about?:
- Does he really think ART is NOT DEEP?
- Is he making some kind of distinction between ART and ENTERTAINMENT? (Ironically, I happen to think that today's pop entertainment is kind of "anti-art" if I may, but that's probably a different discussion).
- Does he think of himself as an entertainer and NOT an artist?
- Was he thinking "it ain't that deep" while writing OOL?
- Is he using this phrase as a SHIELD of sorts?
What do you think?
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Post by adamrocks on Nov 26, 2013 16:40:48 GMT -5
I have to go do RL stuff but I just wanted to say that I have some Japanese art and furnishings in my home and I love, respect, and appreciate their beauty. I don't feel I am wrong to have this art in my home or that I am showing any disrespect by doing so. I just feel Katy Perry just want to show her appreciation for the Japanese culture and beauty.
BBL.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 16:41:57 GMT -5
Many people today have a visceral reaction to anything that smacks of political correctness, because of the excesses. Such as banning the term "brown bag lunch" because it might offend someone who is brown, or kicking a kid out of elementary school for chewing his pop tart into the shape of a gun. When people feel like they can't win, they just drop out of the discussion.
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haribert
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Post by haribert on Nov 26, 2013 16:43:25 GMT -5
I didn't see Katy's performance. But unless she sang, acted, or danced in a manner that ridiculed Asians or portrayed them in a negative light, I don't see why anyone should have been offended.
Before claiming to be offended by an action, I think people should consider the actor's intent, rather than just the act by itself. Think first: did the actor intentionally demean their apparent target? Dressing in a kimono and wearing geisha-like makeup isn't by itself a racial slur, especially if the person in that getup wears it in the context of a stage performance. Calling Asian people offensive names, or making fun of their accents, IS conduct that's unacceptable.
I don't understand the hyper level that political correctness has reached. Seems like some people go around looking for excuses to carp and find fault, but that's their problem.
I happen to be what some would call "plus size." But if someone makes a remark in my presence that refers to my size, I don't automatically go all PC on them. It depends on what I perceive as their intent. For example: if I see a cute outfit in a store and the salesclerk tells me "We don't have that item in your size," I'd assume she's only commenting on her store's inventory. (Unless, of course, she sneers while saying it and is looking at me like I'm an especially repulsive type of vermin.) On the other hand, would I snap back if a complete stranger snipes "You don't need that!" while watching me eat a cookie at the food court? Hell, yeah! Intent is everything.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 16:48:36 GMT -5
Many of you expressed your view on the "PC" angle of the recent "rant" - very interesting reading. I haven'e watched AMAs last night so I have no comment re KP's performance. Instead, I'd like to solicit your opinions on Adam's old and persistent " it ain't that deep" idea... What is he talking about?: - Does he really think ART is NOT DEEP? - Is he making some kind of distinction between ART and ENTERTAINMENT? (Ironically, I happen to think that today's pop entertainment is kind of "anti-art" if I may, but that's probably a different discussion). - Does he think of himself as an entertainer and NOT an artist? - Was he thinking "it ain't that deep" while writing OOL? - Is he using this phrase as a SHIELD of sorts? What do you think? I am guessing because I do not know Adam or how he thinks but since I've followed him for a while and listened to him speak here is what I think he means: I think he believes that there is a difference between a performance on stage of a song and a painting or poem with deeper meaning; not all songs are art and not all art is deep yes, he's making a distinction, as he's done in the past. There is art and there is entertainment. They aren't mutally exclusive but they aren't mutually inclusive either. He thinks of himself as both, as he's said before. He also thinks of himself as an artist and business man. OOL of is too personal for him to not consider deep. I think he does use "it's not that deep" as a way of diffusing negative opinions of people who overthink every little thing. Adam is clearly a deep thinker. I think he tends to internalize a lot of his thoughts and then shares his conclusions with the world in these twitter exchanges. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 16:58:05 GMT -5
Political correctness is itself a term used to ridicule and demonize those that take offence at the words of others. It is a often used as a way to minimize the demands of courtesy and consideration and to shift the attention from the offence-giver to the offence-recipient. Sometimes the offence taken is out of proportion to that given, and sometimes the offence given is accidental. But the person taking offence should not be ridiculed for that offence, especially if the ridiculer is not of the same 'demographic' as that offended....whew...trying to be inclusive is not easy. Which of course, is the whole issue. So....if you are not an Asian woman...no, you probably won't find that offensive but that does not mean that the Asian woman who does deserves to be ridiculed. Many times we ignore offensive humour because the fact is, the brunt of the humour will be themselves ridiculed rather than the perpetrator held to account for their thoughtlessness. DO NOT MISINTERPRET MY NEXT WORDS...DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH OR MAKE MORE OF IT THAN WHAT I AM SAYING!! PLEASE... I am a blonde. Spent most of my adult life as a blonde hairdresser. For close to 10 years, I had every blonde joke written emailed to me each time a new one came out. Was I insulted...not as a rule. I even laughed...the first few times. But trust me....I did not particularly enjoy them after the first time...they were almost always demeaning and insulting....I dare you to come up with one that was complimentary on any level!! Furthermore, if you substitute "Jewish" or "African American" or "Native/First Nations" for "Blonde" and tell me how you feel?? Truly, as a blonde woman I have never had the nerve to actually SAY what I just wrote...why??? because a bunch of people would ridicule me and call me out as ridiculous and unfairly stifling another's right to free speech and be funny....and frankly, I did not care and did not take it personally. But then, being blonde was a choice that I could alter and that makes a big difference. Still...it would be the rare human being that would actually think back on their 'humour' and say...hmmm...never thought of it that way. I AM NOT MAKING A STATEMENT ON ADAM'S OR ANYONE ON THIS FORUM'S WORDS, nor am I making any statement re Katy's performance...I did not even see it. BUT I am making a statement about this habit so many have of claiming anything they do not agree with or understand as mere Political Correctness. That term is meant to silence people and it works...but it is unfair...a form of hitting below the belt. It is easy to accidentally offend...we all do it now and again. That itself if unintended, is easy to rectify....but don't say...oh you are just imposing PC...just say "I am sorry"...I did not mean to offend"....That is all that is needed. as a natural blond myself I've heard all the jokes too. I know I'm not dumb so I don't take offense and usually counter that the blond jokes only apply to brunettes who have tried to co-opt the hair color and hence the bleach has seeped into their brains. We live in a society that has the luxury of anonymous communication. We can say anything we want from the comfort of our homes without reprecussions for our words. We are quick to lash out and say the most vile and disgusting things to each other and about each other. There are certain people whose only goal is to troll the internet and leave hateful nasty comments. They overreach, overreact and overstep ALL THE TIME because they have the protection of the internet to shield them from their own words. 10 years ago no one outside of Julianne Hough's group would have seen that costume and the world would have went on just fine never the wiser. Katy Perry dresses in an oriential styled outfit and people are outraged but GAGA dresses as Marilyn Monroe and pretends the blow R. Kelly who is clearly representing the President of the United States (and we're to assume he was portraying JFK if the connection can be made) and no one bats an eyelash? People find the most innocuous things offensive just so they can be offended and express their outrage. It's become a joke really. When you're outraged by everything who is going to listen when there is really something to be outraged about? |
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