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Post by mszue on Nov 26, 2013 16:58:16 GMT -5
Many of you expressed your view on the "PC" angle of the recent "rant" - very interesting reading. I haven'e watched AMAs last night so I have no comment re KP's performance. Instead, I'd like to solicit your opinions on Adam's old and persistent " it ain't that deep" idea... What is he talking about?: - Does he really think ART is NOT DEEP? - Is he making some kind of distinction between ART and ENTERTAINMENT? (Ironically, I happen to think that today's pop entertainment is kind of "anti-art" if I may, but that's probably a different discussion). - Does he think of himself as an entertainer and NOT an artist? - Was he thinking "it ain't that deep" while writing OOL? - Is he using this phrase as a SHIELD of sorts? What do you think? Hey Nica..that is a good question....it may just be...and I think your comment goes directly to my point re the subjective yet silencing nature of claiming PC...the line is drawn in different places by different people depending on their own sensibilities and relationship to the term or issue under a microscope. To be fair, Adam did not use the term Political Correctness but he intimated it and he retweeted a hashtag using "PC"....and you make an excellent point. To so many of us..."it ain't that deep" when it is about something we don't find important or offensive...and is, if it is! Actually...the Geisha women were originally trained in the arts and graces for the explicit purpose of pleasing men...albeit, not sexually, as a general rule. |
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Post by mszue on Nov 26, 2013 17:07:25 GMT -5
"as a natural blond myself I've heard all the jokes too. I know I'm not dumb so I don't take offense and usually counter that the blond jokes only apply to brunettes who have tried to co-opt the hair color and hence the bleach has seeped into their brains. " So that is what happened to me....  |
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crispy
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Post by crispy on Nov 26, 2013 17:14:04 GMT -5
Maybe the whole Katy Perry Geisha routine was a way of diverting attention from the fact that "Unconditional" is just a really terrible song.
I wonder if Adam will perform Marry the Night during his upcoming concert.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 17:16:40 GMT -5
I watched Katy Perry's performance, and I saw the costumes and sets as an homage to Japanese culture. I was surprised when I saw people calling it racist. So, I read a few of the articles expressing this opinion and I am still bit mystified. A few things I observed: - None of the articles I read were written by Japanese or Japanese-American writers. They were Indian, Korean, and non-Asian authors. So it made me wonder -- do Japanese-Americans find the performance to be offensive? After all, it was a depiction of their culture. Also, the fact that Katy Perry was dressed as a geisha seemed to be a problem for these writers; they associate "geisha" with submissiveness to men and the subjugation of women. Again I wonder -- do geishas have such a negative image in Japanese culture, particularly among Japanese women? Also, there were no demonstrations of male domination or aggression or female submission in KP's performance, so why automatically assume that is what was being projected, simply because she was dressed as a geisha and singing about unconditional love? - At what point does admiration for a culture and wanting to pay homage to it become "appropriation"? Here is a quote from the Psychology Today article (written by an Indian-American man): "[Katy Perry's performance] sounds wonderful, until the image tangles with my own history and experience as an Asian American, as I've watched our cultures misappropriated and commodified time after time. Frankly, many of us feel used as props to glorify White artists." I suspect that Katy Perry likes and admires Japanese culture; suppose she genuinely thought she was being respectful and paying homage to Japanese culture. So why would her performance be viewed in a negative light? Can only Japanese-American singers use Japanese imagery? The U.S. is composed of people of many cultures; all of those cultures are part of who we are as a nation. Should we limit Caucasian/White artists to using the imagery of the cultures of their ancestors? Where does respect and admiration end and appropriation begin? I have Japanese art in my home -- am I appropriating Japanese culture, or (as I intended) decorating my home with art that I consider to be supremely beautiful by artists whom I admire? In the case of some of these writers, there is also an undercurrent of paranoia: in his follow-up article today the author of the Psychology Today article wrote this: "Was her intent to be racist? Superficially, probably not; I’d like to give her the benefit of the doubt. She wanted to entertain, sell albums and have fun, I’m sure. But part of me wonders if angering a minority and generating a backlash against them was part of her marketing plan." Really??? It's comments like this that make me wonder whether the writers of some of these articles are getting carried away. I realize that many people of Asian descent have experienced prejudice in this country -- the list of transgressions is very long indeed. But I wonder if sometimes anger and resentment over historical treatment, however justified, can make one see insults and offense where they don't really exist. Sorry for the long post. Just thought I would share.  I also have not read an opinion from an author who explicitly identifies herself as a Japanese or Japanese American woman. I would like to. I did read a response in a blog called Nikkei Review: The American Asian Blog. In it, the author writes about watching and hoping it was going to be an homage, but why it was not in his/her opinion (I could not tell gender from author's name.) Perry does say she loves Japanese culture. Evidently, she once said on Jimmy Kimmel:"I'm so obsessed with you (Japanese people). I want to skin you and wear you like Versace." I didn't see that on TV myself, I read it today. I found it hard to believe she said that, but . . . It seems like it is true. I find that kind of perspective or "love" a little off, though obviously not meant meanly on her part. But she also had a song "UR so gay," right? So, I mean, obviously she is not into "over"- thinking things. I don't think the author is expressing paranoia when he wonders if Katy Perry might have expected the response. I think he is expressing cynicism. Myself, I just think she is in her own bubble so much she didn't notice when many other stars have faced a similar issue. The author of the Psychology Today article got such a big response in the comments, he wrote again in response to some of them and specifically addressed why he thinks people some come back so hard on him and others who do take offense. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 17:21:54 GMT -5
Many of you expressed your view on the "PC" angle of the recent "rant" - very interesting reading. I haven'e watched AMAs last night so I have no comment re KP's performance. Instead, I'd like to solicit your opinions on Adam's old and persistent " it ain't that deep" idea... What is he talking about?: - Does he really think ART is NOT DEEP? - Is he making some kind of distinction between ART and ENTERTAINMENT? (Ironically, I happen to think that today's pop entertainment is kind of "anti-art" if I may, but that's probably a different discussion). - Does he think of himself as an entertainer and NOT an artist? - Was he thinking "it ain't that deep" while writing OOL? - Is he using this phrase as a SHIELD of sorts? What do you think? This is what I found funny about his tweets. I mean Adam's songs ARE that deep. There is meaning, and double meaning in most of his songs. He does have a message and dare I say an agenda. But I guess part of what he does comes from the overthinker in him and part comes from the spontaneous,experimental adventurist in him. But mostly that is the performer not the writer. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 17:23:37 GMT -5
In the spirit of not being deep, did you know that Simon and Garfunkel actually had a song, Punky's Dilemma, with a boysenberry lyric? Posting it in the spirit of imagining how crazy this place would get interpreting this lyric in an Adam song: Wish I was an English muffin 'Bout to make the most out of a toaster. I'd ease myself down, Comin' up brown. I prefer boysenberry More than any ordinary jam. I'm a "Citizens for Boysenberry Jam" fan. ![]() |
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irish1139
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Post by irish1139 on Nov 26, 2013 17:41:49 GMT -5
I thought Katy looked lovely last night. I think the Japanese culture is beautiful. I feel so naïve because I never thought to ask myself "what is she trying to prove in that Japanese outfit?" Maybe I am not deep enough. So many words and thoughts over a beautiful Japanese dress.
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FanOfTheMan
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Post by FanOfTheMan on Nov 26, 2013 18:02:34 GMT -5
I think that there are "offense police" who find offense in every little innocous word, gesture or action that takes place in real life, on TV or internet. If you are not offended by something, they gleefully pounce in and tell you why you should be.
I take things at face value and enjoy them for what they are - not for the deep, dark hidden meanings. Most of these supposed offenses go right over my head. If something is so overtly ugly or bad, I'll get it usually.
But I'm glad I'm not deep enough or smart enough or vigilant enough to see the evils that they see everywhere all the time.
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Post by wal on Nov 26, 2013 18:08:00 GMT -5
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Post by theosgma on Nov 26, 2013 18:09:09 GMT -5
Maybe the whole Katy Perry Geisha routine was a way of diverting attention from the fact that "Unconditional" is just a really terrible song. I wonder if Adam will perform Marry the Night during his upcoming concert. I am wondering if he will as well. I think we will all faint on the spot. |
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