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Post by nica575 on May 9, 2013 12:02:35 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2013 13:28:17 GMT -5
That is a good question. I was a huge Heinlein fan until his later years when his views on sexuality became more disturbing. In his case it was incest. I thought then and now about his body of work and if his imho, rather juvenile view of sex in general would keep me from reading one of the giants of SF. I choose to read but still find I am selective in my choice. To be honest? I found myself pitying him because it seemed to be something he had never truly come to terms with.
This quote from the article says a lot
"Here in America, attempts like yours, to intellectualize bigotry
routinely die. We saw it with suffrage and then with civil rights."
eta: just saw something else. Card is descended from a polygamous marriage.. His head must spin sometimes to keep up with the times.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2013 15:43:52 GMT -5
That is a tough one. For me it depends on how central the issue is to the author's work. Let's face it -- we're all a bit of an asshole about something, from someone's perspective. If Card doesn't make his anti-gay views a theme of his work (which it doesn't sound like he does or you wouldn't love his books so much), I'd be inclined to continue to enjoy his work and hope that he had a change of heart somewhere along the line.
If he decides to make it central to his work, or if he takes such a public stand that he becomes identified with the issue, then that would be a different matter, much harder to continue to be a fan. I think of the case of Mel Gibson. I used to love him but now I can't stand to watch his old movies, even ones that were favorites.
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Post by nica575 on May 10, 2013 16:13:00 GMT -5
thank you for your take, grandduchess and Junie.Normally I would ignore, and continue enjoying an artist's work (like I listen to Wagner), but for some reason I am really affected by this article, to the point of feeling "guilty" ... so, I suppose I am not going to seek out Card's work any more and that's that. Not a big loss... oh...I never knew this horrible detail about Heinlein! wow! Love everything he wrote pretty much, so this is disturbing as well.... Once, many years ago, Sheila Williams, the managing editor of Asimov's Magazine told me that it is better not to meet the authors to avoid being disappointed. I have to retroactively agree with her :  |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2013 16:36:27 GMT -5
nica, I have to agree with you about not looking too closely into a writer's views. Being a writer myself (not famous, LOL), I have had a few close encounters with some name authors. Several were fantastically kind and encouraging and a couple were real jerks. One of them even threatened me because I left a three-star review for his book on Amazon. This book was a best-seller with hundreds of reviews! How insecure can you get?
Not long ago I sought out the blog and website of an author I really like, and it was full of her inflammatory opinions and rants about political matters and everything else under the sun that was going on in her life. Never went back -- realizing that I needed to let her books and great imagination stand on their own.
Just because you have a forum as a celebrity or quasi-celebrity doesn't necessarily mean you should use it. I wonder would the world have gained anything if Ernest Hemingway had blogged or tweeted. The ease of communicating one's thoughts these days leads to a lot of foot-in-mouth syndrome.
My hope is that Adam never becomes too political and stays mostly on the entertainment side of things. His work makes such a beautiful statement. The world is full of politicians who can blather to the skies, but mighty short on people who can embody joy, freedom, liberation through their art.
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nikki
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Post by nikki on May 15, 2013 7:35:25 GMT -5
Just because you have a forum as a celebrity or quasi-celebrity doesn't necessarily mean you should use it. I wonder would the world have gained anything if Ernest Hemingway had blogged or tweeted. The ease of communicating one's thoughts these days leads to a lot of foot-in-mouth syndrome. My hope is that Adam never becomes too political and stays mostly on the entertainment side of things. His work makes such a beautiful statement. The world is full of politicians who can blather to the skies, but mighty short on people who can embody joy, freedom, liberation through their art. Beautifully said, Junie and hello again, everyone. While I respect Adam embracing being a 'role model', until I read your words I hadn't realised that I too, share your hope. But I found his acceptance speech reassuring - it was very 60's love child to me - he always comes back to the central theme of love, connectedness, similarity rather than difference, what unites us. The original meaning of the word 'politics'. He very much sees himself as a world citizen. There is so much to love and respect about him - his joy, freedom and liberation are top of the list. So, too, for me is the extraordinarily difficult art of balance, particularly given his self-described intensity and obsessiveness. And, of course, the somewhat old-fashioned notion of humility. Genuine humility that comes from an awareness and acceptance of our own flaws. So far, I've only considered his use of the 'c' word to be a misstep, and I think it's partly generational. There would only be two things that he could do that would turn me off him completely - that I wouldn't be able to get past. The chances of those things happening are zero given his nature. |
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2013 10:03:11 GMT -5
For obvious reasons, Adam has in his fans a large number of people who feel denied, ignored, and discredited. Is that fair to say? Adam offers us a chance to transform that identity with his march to glory. He explicitly embraces and embodies good and bad, moral and immoral, normal and freak, ordinary and spectacular. He gives us permission -- yes, even us -- to laugh, cry, scream, shake our asses, and embrace the outlandish. When Adam wins, we all win. He is our champion. Truth be told -- he's something of a magician. So...tonight, Adam returns to the stage where that hero's journey began...tonight, our champion speaks! Oh what joy! But oh what speculation about what he will "say." It seems we all have a different story we want him to tell. And therein lies a tale. This tale is not about Adam. After all, Adam will choose whatever he will choose. He will do what is best with the opportunity and almost certainly make something golden out of it. We do not get to vote or have a say -- only torture each other and ourselves with our dreams and nightmares. The dreamers run the risk of being disappointed. Even Adam can only do so much with a crippled show with its own agenda to promote. And the sufferers of nightmares have brought shame and insecurity out into the light, as Adam did with Underneath. Adam's songs of liberation and brazen sexuality and honesty, they say, are not fit to be sung in such a public place, even by Adam himself. After all -- Adam has been savagely attacked on these grounds. Perhaps he might find a more tasteful choice elsewhere. From the beginning, Adam has a split image and he may always do so. He is handsome, altruistic, a good boy who loves his mama, and a gentleman. And, he fiercely melds gay and black musical heritage, has explicitly labeled himself a diva and a weird fuckin fag, tattooed himself with the word freak, and outrageously assaults the boredom and repression of contemporary pop music. Tonight Adam will perform for a national television audience with all his utter beauty, his sexiness, his talent, and his life force at his command. He will want to please us and he will want to go his own way too. As for every messy ounce of guilt, shame, and fear, and hope, love, and trust -- those are our burdens to carry, not his. P.S. Welcome back nikki!! |
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Post by sugaree on May 16, 2013 15:16:31 GMT -5
Wow junie! Amen sistah!
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Post by nikki on May 18, 2013 5:10:49 GMT -5
For obvious reasons, Adam has in his fans a large number of people who feel denied, ignored, and discredited. Is that fair to say? Adam offers us a chance to transform that identity with his march to glory. He explicitly embraces and embodies good and bad, moral and immoral, normal and freak, ordinary and spectacular. He gives us permission -- yes, even us -- to laugh, cry, scream, shake our asses, and embrace the outlandish. When Adam wins, we all win. He is our champion. Truth be told -- he's something of a magician. I think it is more than fair to say that, Junie. And it is certainly true for me. But you know, I've realised that I was my own source of denial about living 'smaller' than I was capable of. I was ignoring what was larger, what was swimming against the tide in myself and the internal pressure to express it more fully in the world. In many ways the world mirrored that back to me, but I was its source. Adam embraces polarity and paradox just as you say - which makes the breadth of his connection to people very universal, very rare and also potentially very deep because we can relate to him at so many levels; some we acknowledge, some we hide and he exposes it. It also means he simply won't be reduced to a caricature of himself. A marketing dilemma, absolutely. A fan dilemma, highly likely, particularly to people who won't leave particular boundaries behind in themselves and so, have trouble accepting when Adam crashes through them. We can rationalise, of course, that behaving in such a complex way may reduce his possible 'success'; but I also believe the limitation can often be personal and self-imposed. I also think you're right that when Adam wins we all win. Symbolically and very personally as well - what he has liberated and encouraged in us from his own being. I simply feel like he is a friend who also cheers me on. I simply feel reassured by his presence in the world, that he is a here, a part of it, whether is 'winning' or not. I thought his performance on Idol was sublime. Vocally exquisite. Beautiful artistry. And a beautiful expression of chivalry between masculine and feminine energies - within himself, and extended to Angie. |
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Post by minnie12 on May 18, 2013 22:45:42 GMT -5
Hi all. Yes Adam has mega talent, but the true dilemma is that despite all he does and will do to promote love and acceptance, even among the haters is that he does not garner the respect his talent deserves from the music industry and mainstream America. There are entertainers whose lack of talent and negative behaviors are constantly in the limelight, but their music sells. Despite all the photos everyone takes with him in the gay clubs, gays can be the most critical, due to the lack of community and support of each other. Adam is not political, he represents all disenfranchised populations, which has nothing to do with sexual orientation. But the dearth of recognition here is a problem, when it translates into his music not selling. The constant snubs by the award shows have not changed throughout his career. Adam's fans realize that there is a barrier as if he represents something threatening in that Adam is totally transparent about his life and emotions. I think fans were so happy for Adam to have found love--with a partner who had so many positive attributes, which spilled over into Adam himself, that the break-up prompted concerns of fears of old behaviors surfacing. I'm happy Sauli's career is going great--after all his fans and the Finnish entertainment industry seem to be firmly behind him. He interacts with politicians and movers and shakers and has such a positive image--regardless of sexual orientation or his personal relationships.My fear is regardless of all the positive changes in Adam, that there is no way to navigate thru the institutional restrictions limiting his success. At times, I don't think RCA/Sony are promoting Adam like their other artists. Although his fandom is awesome, fans can only do so much, in terms of buying power and raising Adams visibility. People overseas see him as a mega-star, but when I didn't have the Internet for some months, Adam was only mentioned once or twice, there was no publicity at all. The shows with Queen did not garner the deserved attention here, off the internet.There is no reason why less talented, thoughtless, mean spirited people are constantly being hyped and get all the press negative behaviors notwithstanding and Adam is pure class, and most deserving. My fear is without huge sales of new music when it comes, his ability to keep his recording contract will become a big issue. Adam works harder than anyone else out there, on all levels, but I don't feel as if he gets opportunities in the entertainment industry. Why did Adam have to do a duet on Idol, when other artists were being showcased as individuals? Even the judges performed--all except no talent Nikki. The usual suspects will be on Billboard awards. Lets try to find a way as fans for Adam to get what he needs to progress to the next level, regardless of those elements societal and otherwise who seem invested in ignoring Adam's talents and positivity.
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