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Post by lurleene on Oct 29, 2019 23:20:38 GMT -5
@lurleene so why do we call Adam a trailblazer when celebrities have ZERO influence?! Opening eyes, changing hearts and Minds... I don't wait for celebrities to save the day (i vote, i take to the streets, etc.) but they do have a role they could play but often words and action are miles apart, that's all i'm pointing out. Thank you momtomanny for letting us know. I hope for the best for you. I don't think anyone said celebrities have zero influence. And if Adam could stop the discrimination and bigotry against the LGBT community he would start with helping himself as well as others. He has been an inspiration to many but I doubt there is anyone out there who thinks he or the LGBT Community can stop that sh** by themselves. It takes all of us and even politicians to make things better. And I think Adam is like most celebrities, he does what he can for causes that are important to him. You may not know what they are doing, or what causes they are helping with, but it does not mean they are indifferent. So we can rant against Hollywood for not doing enough to save the planet or we can get ourselves out there to do more or what we can. And TBH, many in Hollywood have taken up many causes, even Climate Change. Can anyone take on every cause in a major display? No. But at the end of the day, you can only control your time and effort and challenge your politicians to do more. Is there some celebrity or celebrities in particular in Hollywood who are not meeting your expectations on this cause? Or is it all of them? If that is the case, you can't force anyone to take up a cause unless they want to take it up. Their voices, time and efforts are not in the hands or control of others.
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marionm
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Post by marionm on Oct 29, 2019 23:55:16 GMT -5
@lurleene so why do we call Adam a trailblazer when celebrities have ZERO influence?! Opening eyes, changing hearts and Minds... I don't wait for celebrities to save the day (i vote, i take to the streets, etc.) but they do have a role they could play but often words and action are miles apart, that's all i'm pointing out. Thank you momtomanny for letting us know. I hope for the best for you. I don't think anyone said celebrities have zero influence. And if Adam could stop the discrimination and bigotry against the LGBT community he would start with helping himself as well as others. He has been an inspiration to many but I doubt there is anyone out there who thinks he or the LGBT Community can stop that sh** by themselves. It takes all of us and even politicians to make things better. And I think Adam is like most celebrities, he does what he can for causes that are important to him. You may not know what they are doing, or what causes they are helping with, but it does not mean they are indifferent. So we can rant against Hollywood for not doing enough to save the planet or we can get ourselves out there to do more or what we can. And TBH, many in Hollywood have taken up many causes, even Climate Change. Can anyone take on every cause in a major display? No. But at the end of the day, you can only control your time and effort and challenge your politicians to do more. Is there some celebrity or celebrities in particular in Hollywood who are not meeting your expectations on this cause? Or is it all of them? If that is the case, you can't force anyone to take up a cause unless they want to take it up. Their voices, time and efforts are not in the hands or control of others. You have fiercly negated my position that celebs could have a positive influence which sounded to me like they had none. And again: i'm not saying they are the sole core solution to the problem. Celebrities meeting my standard? A wierd concept because as you have pointed out everyone is their own master and doesnt have to fulfill my expectation. Yes, i could give you quite a list of celebrities. Why is it so hard to accept that i criticize celebrities putting envirionmentally distructive behaviour in display, or "preaching water and drinking wine"? I don't dismiss them as a whole Person or human but it's simply something i'm very sceptical of.
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Post by lurleene on Oct 30, 2019 0:25:52 GMT -5
I don't think anyone said celebrities have zero influence. And if Adam could stop the discrimination and bigotry against the LGBT community he would start with helping himself as well as others. He has been an inspiration to many but I doubt there is anyone out there who thinks he or the LGBT Community can stop that sh** by themselves. It takes all of us and even politicians to make things better. And I think Adam is like most celebrities, he does what he can for causes that are important to him. You may not know what they are doing, or what causes they are helping with, but it does not mean they are indifferent. So we can rant against Hollywood for not doing enough to save the planet or we can get ourselves out there to do more or what we can. And TBH, many in Hollywood have taken up many causes, even Climate Change. Can anyone take on every cause in a major display? No. But at the end of the day, you can only control your time and effort and challenge your politicians to do more. Is there some celebrity or celebrities in particular in Hollywood who are not meeting your expectations on this cause? Or is it all of them? If that is the case, you can't force anyone to take up a cause unless they want to take it up. Their voices, time and efforts are not in the hands or control of others. You have fiercly negated my position that celebs could have a positive influence which sounded to me like they had none. And again: i'm not saying they'd are the sole core solution to the problem. Celebrities meeting my standard? A wierd concept because as you have pointed out everyone is their own master and doesnt have to fulfill my expectation. Yes, i could give you quite a list of celebrities. Why is it so hard to accept that i criticize celebrities putting envirionmentally distructive behaviour in display, or "preaching water and drinking eine"? I don't dismiss them as a whole Person or human but it's simply something i'm very sceptical of. I think we are just not on the same page. But I do apologize. I guess it is a matter of perspective. I live in a conservative part of the US. My state was red like forever and we fought hard to make it start to trend blue. But it is a never ending battle. They could not take away a women's right to choose so they tried to put in all these invasive procedures. We had to fight like hell to get it overturned. They did not want to give those in need health care. We had to fight to vote some of those nuts out to finally get a tie in the legislature. Then one on our side flipped to the other side. But they got scared because we came so close that they compromised and allowed some of our citizens to get much needed health care. The LGBT Community is thriving and treated as equals in the majority and more progressive parts of the state but the rural poor communities need a LOT of work. It is like two different countries. One fairly well off and the other not so much. We are trying to get those who don't believe in climate change out of office but it has been difficult but we are making progress. It is a constant fight to keep moving forward. It has not been easy but we do it because we think it is the right thing to do. But I have never heard anyone around here say or expect Hollywood to do the work for us. If we waited for celebrities to bring us our hard earned changes, we would be sh** out of luck, lol. PEACE!
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Post by Jablea on Oct 30, 2019 1:26:40 GMT -5
Celebrities don't pick causes, causes pick them. Expecting Adam for example to be a poster boy for environmentalism just doesn't fit - just as it didn't really fit with his Global Citizen save the ocean goal. It's not really him, at least not without a lot of sustained effort over years not a one time event. Now Dr. Bri and environment that's a match.
For Adam his cause or trail blazing is for LGBTQ and maybe some generalizations to otherness and music. It will be interesting when he announces what his new charity will do. But that fits him, he's accepted and embraced being a role model for that. As far as influencing politics, such as national leaders, he hasn't changed the mind of many ardent supporters, some of whom are on this board and have been their since the beginning. If he can't change fans minds how would he influence a broader populous? It's got to fit, minds have been changed by him on LGBTQ issues but not economics for example.
I think it would be very hard to accept someone like Beyonce as someone totally into environment - maybe she is I just don't know enough - but should she instead of a big home in Hollywood have a big home in Wyoming? How does that change anything other than spread sprawl to Wyoming and more airline flights for her?
Celebrities can have events, they can talk, but can they do their celebrity job at the same time as living a lifestyle that matches? Probably only with difficulty.
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marionm
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Post by marionm on Oct 30, 2019 2:35:09 GMT -5
You have fiercly negated my position that celebs could have a positive influence which sounded to me like they had none. And again: i'm not saying they'd are the sole core solution to the problem. Celebrities meeting my standard? A wierd concept because as you have pointed out everyone is their own master and doesnt have to fulfill my expectation. Yes, i could give you quite a list of celebrities. Why is it so hard to accept that i criticize celebrities putting envirionmentally distructive behaviour in display, or "preaching water and drinking eine"? I don't dismiss them as a whole Person or human but it's simply something i'm very sceptical of. I think we are just not on the same page. But I do apologize. I guess it is a matter of perspective. I live in a conservative part of the US. My state was red like forever and we fought hard to make it start to trend blue. But it is a never ending battle. They could not take away a women's right to choose so they tried to put in all these invasive procedures. We had to fight like hell to get it overturned. They did not want to give those in need health care. We had to fight to vote some of those nuts out to finally get a tie in the legislature. Then one on our side flipped to the other side. But they got scared because we came so close that they compromised and allowed some of our citizens to get much needed health care. The LGBT Community is thriving and treated as equals in the majority and more progressive parts of the state but the rural poor communities need a LOT of work. It is like two different countries. One fairly well off and the other not so much. We are trying to get those who don't believe in climate change out of office but it has been difficult but we are making progress. It is a constant fight to keep moving forward. It has not been easy but we do it because we think it is the right thing to do. But I have never heard anyone around here say or expect Hollywood to do the work for us. If we waited for celebrities to bring us our hard earned changes, we would be sh** out of luck, lol. PEACE! Sorry but that is a very limited view of one state. What i mean transcents sate borders and even national borders. I don't know how often i have to say this but i never said i expected celebrities to "save the day" but they could play a part. Why on earth would brands literally pay Millions to stars if they didnt expect that advertising to get people to buy their products. And also i am taking political as well as individual action.
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mszue
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Post by mszue on Oct 30, 2019 3:22:17 GMT -5
I think we are just not on the same page. But I do apologize. I guess it is a matter of perspective. I live in a conservative part of the US. My state was red like forever and we fought hard to make it start to trend blue. But it is a never ending battle. They could not take away a women's right to choose so they tried to put in all these invasive procedures. We had to fight like hell to get it overturned. They did not want to give those in need health care. We had to fight to vote some of those nuts out to finally get a tie in the legislature. Then one on our side flipped to the other side. But they got scared because we came so close that they compromised and allowed some of our citizens to get much needed health care. The LGBT Community is thriving and treated as equals in the majority and more progressive parts of the state but the rural poor communities need a LOT of work. It is like two different countries. One fairly well off and the other not so much. We are trying to get those who don't believe in climate change out of office but it has been difficult but we are making progress. It is a constant fight to keep moving forward. It has not been easy but we do it because we think it is the right thing to do. But I have never heard anyone around here say or expect Hollywood to do the work for us. If we waited for celebrities to bring us our hard earned changes, we would be sh** out of luck, lol. PEACE! Sorry but that is a very limited view of one state. What i mean transcents sate borders and even national borders. I don't know how often i have to say this but i never said i expected celebrities to "save the day" but they could play a part. Why on earth would brands literally pay Millions to stars if they didnt expect that advertising to get people to buy their products. And also i am taking political as well as individual action. I am not sure if I were the first to use term celebrities or not...but look back...I said celebrities AND politicians. I do not mean just singers and actors...there are athletes, intellectuals, writers, internet celebs...all sorts of super visible people who do not need to prosyletize...just show a good example here and there. Ultimately it is us that have to change, and do, it was everyone going on about hw it is up to corps to do all the changing that prompted me to post in the first place. Honestly, I call that a cop out. The only thing I cringe about re Adam is the vast number of water bottles he leaves in his wake...why not glasses on stage instead os bottles...with a sipping top...why not a Gucci bottle with filter instead of a disposable as he walks about having his pic taken...that is the kind of influence I am promoting. Good grief...how many glamberts have already bought something in velvet in anticipation of the next concert....yes, celebs have influence. So why can’t it be for good just once in a bit
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marionm
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Post by marionm on Oct 30, 2019 3:55:49 GMT -5
Sorry but that is a very limited view of one state. What i mean transcents sate borders and even national borders. I don't know how often i have to say this but i never said i expected celebrities to "save the day" but they could play a part. Why on earth would brands literally pay Millions to stars if they didnt expect that advertising to get people to buy their products. And also i am taking political as well as individual action. I am not sure if I were the first to use term celebrities or not...but look back...I said celebrities AND politicians. I do not mean just singers and actors...there are athletes, intellectuals, writers, internet celebs...all sorts of super visible people who do not need to prosyletize...just show a good example here and there. Ultimately it is us that have to change, and do, it was everyone going on about hw it is up to corps to do all the changing that prompted me to post in the first place. Honestly, I call that a cop out. The only thing I cringe about re Adam is the vast number of water bottles he leaves in his wake...why not glasses on stage instead os bottles...with a sipping top...why not a Gucci bottle with filter instead of a disposable as he walks about having his pic taken...that is the kind of influence I am promoting. Good grief...how many glamberts have already bought something in velvet in anticipation of the next concert....yes, celebs have influence. So why can’t it be for good just once in a bit That's why i used the general term celebrity, anyone in the public eye. I have to disagree on coorporations not having responsiblity. They have the bigger arm to effect change and often they use their money and power to prevent positive change. As a positive example: A Supermarkt chain, a big one, if not THE biggest one in Australia cut out plastic bags...other chains followed. As a negative example: i don't expect anyone to pay taxes that are used to subsidise big aggricultural industry and then on top of that being guilt trip into buying expensive local organic food. I do because i have the financial means to do so and i prioratize this but i don't expect everyone to follow. It's very neoliberal to blame individuals and EXACTLY what coorporations want so THEY don't become the target. 20 companies are responsible for 30 precent of the Greenhaus gas emissions and 100 companies make for 70%. All of the above doesnt mean i don't think individuals have a big personal responsiblity as well. You influence Friends and family If you know it or not and every purchase is a vote. But atm i see the bigger burden of responsiblity on the side of companies who SO OFTEN delay action.
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mszue
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Post by mszue on Oct 30, 2019 4:16:51 GMT -5
I am not sure if I were the first to use term celebrities or not...but look back...I said celebrities AND politicians. I do not mean just singers and actors...there are athletes, intellectuals, writers, internet celebs...all sorts of super visible people who do not need to prosyletize...just show a good example here and there. Ultimately it is us that have to change, and do, it was everyone going on about hw it is up to corps to do all the changing that prompted me to post in the first place. Honestly, I call that a cop out. The only thing I cringe about re Adam is the vast number of water bottles he leaves in his wake...why not glasses on stage instead os bottles...with a sipping top...why not a Gucci bottle with filter instead of a disposable as he walks about having his pic taken...that is the kind of influence I am promoting. Good grief...how many glamberts have already bought something in velvet in anticipation of the next concert....yes, celebs have influence. So why can’t it be for good just once in a bit That's why i used the general term celebrity, anyone in the public eye. I have to disagree on coorporations not having responsiblity. They have the bigger arm to effect change and often they use their money and power to prevent positive change. As a positive example: A Supermarkt chain, a big one, if not THE biggest one in Australia cut out plastic bags...other chains followed. As a negative example: i don't expect anyone to pay taxes that are used to subsidise big aggricultural industry and then on top of that being guilt trip into buying expensive local organic food. I do because i have the financial means to do so and i prioratize this but i don't expect everyone to follow. It's very neoliberal to blame individuals and EXACTLY what coorporations want so THEY don't become the target. 20 companies are responsible for 30 precent of the Greenhaus gas emissions and 100 companies make for 70%. All of the above doesnt mean i don't think individuals have a big personal responsiblity as well. You influence Friends and family If you know it or not and every purchase is a vote. But atm i see the bigger burden of responsiblity on the side of companies who SO OFTEN delay action. I did not mean .. or say for that matter...that corporations do not bear the greatest responsibility fo make fundamental changes, simply that this fact does not negate our personal responsibilities as well. Hey...I live on Salt Spring Island....both our federal and provincial rep are Green Party...our federal one is the national leader. I work hard for them...I despair of the lack of a public corporate conscience.
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Post by sizzling63 on Oct 30, 2019 4:33:04 GMT -5
Words are easier than actions for most, and that goes also for celebrities who tend to rally for good causes. For them, it could start with something as simple as using a reusable water bottle while out and about, may be one of those that were included in VIP packages a few years ago I believe that due to the severity of the current condition of our planet it is everybody's responsibility to step is up, be it private individuals, organizations, corporations, and last but not least... politicians.
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marionm
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Post by marionm on Oct 30, 2019 5:13:34 GMT -5
Sorry for kicking off this discussion and hawking this thread. I want to thank everyone for this varied discussion and the will to even put time and effort to write and discuss about this issue.
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